Members for Democracy Archive

Hey Scotty we're still waiting. Come on, make with the clarification.

Hey Rv why do you care how he feels?
Do you have a problem with someone who likes being in the ufcw?
Is your bitter seemingly hate filled heart kept alive only to crap on the ufcw or anyone that seems not to share your opinions?

He was not called a criminal with regards to the law but too the labour movement so maybe Scotty is referring too the fact that Basil Hargrove felt he could ignore CLC procedure in regards to members decertifying their present union and signing up for another?
Or maybe the fact that he has divided workers based on nationalism?
Or could it be that a member of his union recieved stolen property that constitutes an invasion of privacy?

So I guess the question is Scotty is it one of these or do you have more to add to it?

No I am not paid by any union for anything.I do not think people should be attacking others for no reason other than their blind hatered for people who do not share their view points.But good to see the paranoia building more and more.Watchout maybe the ufcw will send out it's death squad for you.
You want to try and some how belittle me for my point of view, have at it.
And oh wow I made some spelling mistakes I guess if you and the merry band of revolutionaries get to take over the world I can expect to be shot for it.

As for who I really am ask Dougle, EDelio or Demon they all know me and work with me.

I am neither bitter nor hate-filled as you put it FU. As a matter of fact I feel great! A1! F'ing terrific!

I don't hate the UFCW leaders. I actually feel sort of sorry for them because their era is passing into and they seem to be reacting like such idiots about it. I knew some of them quite well at one time and some actually were pretty decent people with a lot of potential. But they became corrupted along the way and it's sad really what's happened to them.

Having said that, they've made their beds and even at this late date could redeem themselves by coming clean and dedicating what is left of their lives to the cause for which they once stood - the advancement of the interests of the community of workers.

As to your comments about Pinebush Scotty's borderline (I'm being kind) defamatory statement about Hargrove: I do not see how Hargrove could be called a criminal to the labour movement because he went against the CLC's rules. The CLC does not make laws - only the government makes laws. The "no raiding" rule is a house rule just like a golf and country club can have its own rules or a social club can have its house rules. Breaking those rules is not the same as breaking the law. For this reason, your explanation on Scotty's behalf does not make any sense.

I would like to hear from Scotty directly because his statement suggests (well it says) that Hargrove is a criminal and I'd like to know on what basis Scotty is levelling this accusation in our forum.

I too have noticed your vastly improved spelling. That and other tell tale machine tracks lead me to believe that you are a speaking on more than just your own behalf - you're here as a UFCW Local 1000a emissary. You may work in the warehouse or wherever you work, but you're definitely a special kind of member.

Anyway, you're welcome to come here and make yourself and your union look foolish as often as you like. I'm not paranoid but, just to be on the safe side, I'll have to do the responsible thing with your statement about the UFCW sending a death squad for me. Thanks for your candor. President Corporon will be proud of your efforts I'm sure.

O.K I leave you guys for 3 days on some training courses for my Union and I come back to this SH*T

Basil and the C.A.W are criminals IN MY OPINION:

The C.A.W likes to "RAID" other Union shops to take over membership. THAT IS PROVEN.
The C.A.W does not like going after Non-Union places for its easier to Raid other places to take away dues from other unions.
Even when there great leaders sign documents to make sure no raid will take place they still do.

How about the CLC they like to ignore them WHY?

Action should be taken agaist this corrupt Union

C.A.W= "Criers And Whiners"

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posted by Fed Up:
By the way Scotty did all the health safety reps from maple grove come in for the training?

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No which did not really suprise me!!

The ones who "talk the talk" don't "walk the walk"

Example: Capt of the Love Boat

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posted by remote viewer:
T"UAW-CAW" list is also quite hefty but appears to cover criminal activites related to UAW officials only (they are not related to the CAW).

.

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Thats a great article on both The Auto Workers and the UFCW BUT From where Im sitting both of the stories are mainly AMERICAN
The C.A.W stands for CANADIAN Auto Workers.
Of course you would not see the cases of corruption on an AMERICAN web site.

Maybe if you spent some time on this you could look at some CANADIAN sources.

Thank-You

By the way we are CANADIAN not AMERICANS

nice try though

[QUOTE]posted by remote viewer:
[QB]FU - you'd better hope I live to a ripe old age.

And why is that?
Have I been given the power to decide the length of ones' life?
Lots of people die of all kinds of things in the prime of life, and trust me if I had the power over life and death there would be about a million people I would be busy keeping alive.

So if I do recieve that power here is the list in which I will be perserving people alive
Children
A Parent of a young child
Newly or Recently married persons
Anyone just getting a good start and enjoying life
Persons who contribute to the positive atmosphere

Yes the ufcw death squads why do you think the ufcw is based in the united states?
The school of the americas.

Actually Dougle many rank and file members of the seiu were very upset about becoming members of the caw.They never got to vote they wanted to the ability to decide for themselves which way they wanted their union to go, but that was decided for them by their leaders on the local levels.
The CLC is a governing body which allows union to work in unison for the betterment of all Canadian workers, they had a problem when the caw decided that the business interest of the caw was more important than worker solidarity.
Funny around here people seem to be constantly carping about the ufcw for doing the same thing. But I guess it is okay to crap all over worker solidarity aslong as your working against ufcw.

Hey Scotty just clicked that one link, um I was wondering when the next meeting for your other union may be as I, purely from a labour point of view wish to attend and uh interview a couple of the union members and see if they feel they are feeling discriminated against by their union for being female.

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Watchout maybe the ufcw will send out it's death squad for you.

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Quote By FED UP

I just have to email the United Food and Commercial Workers to see if I am on their hit list.

You all will notice that there was a maybe in that the ufcw will send it's death squad for you, but it was a statement that certainly leaves you will the
impression that the ufcw has a Death Squad.

I would really like to know more about ufcw's Death Sqaud advocated by Fed Up.

Please Mr. Watt can you explain what this supporting member of your union, (ufcw) is refering to when he makes refererences to the ufcw Death Squad? Is this along the lines of what Fed Up is making threats. Does the ufcw really have its own Death Squad as Fed up states?

I think your references to UFCW death squads - whether intended to be funny or not - are very telling. Your reference to UFCW lawsuits is also very interesting.

I think that we must ask Mr. Watts and the UFCW leaders on both sides of the border what these references to UFCW death squads are all about - and why they are being posted on our web site, repeatedly, at this time, by a UFCW mouthpiece.

Answer this question for us FU: Do you think death squads are something funny? Or has the UFCW sent you here with a message for us and our community? Or both?

Well the medication has not kicked yet I see.The death squads which operate in south american countries are not funny in fact the whole idea of death squads in any country is not funny.

What is really frickin funny is the paranoia that is displayed, well was, now it is sad because I am beginning to believe I am not far off the mark in your case about medication and paranoia.

Don't worry no one is after you it is all safe.

As far as being sent here talk to Demon and any of his caw buddies at maple grove who advocate this place.

As far as my comment about lawsuits it was a camparative comment meant to help people see there are worse things in life.

It is obvious rv you do not posess the sense of humour you claim to have and that you may be in need of profesional help.

So the best of luck to you.

sa you know how to swear how does that make you any smarter than the rest of the kids on the short school bus?

Once again i reiterate for those a little slow there are no union death squads flying around the planet okay.I am very well of union muscle stories but they for the most part tend to involve organized crime and before you start no the mafia is not coming after no one either.

Hey sa get a life you seem a little to preoccupied with death.

quote:

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posted by Secret Agent:
Hey F---ed Up

Here's something about Death Squads that oughta make you laugh. Pretty funny huh? Give your head a shake you dumb shit.

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HEY MODERATORS YOU THREATEN TO KICK US OUT OF THIS FORUM FOR PERSONAL ATTACKS.....

NOW THAT YOU HAVE AN ANTI-UFCW PERSON IN HERE YOU DONT SAY SH&T?

PLEASE LOOK OVER YOUR "THREATS" TO MYSELF AND THE REST OF THE SUPPORTERS TO BE KICKED OUT AND USE THEM FOR EVERYONE!

It's very offensive to joke about death squads. It's like joking about the Holocaust or 9/11 or other terrible acts of destruction.

IMO the death squad reference is overblown, in poor taste, but overblown. A simple apology would be nice Fed Up.

But why do you try to justify your reference to a death squad with other references about character assination or slander?

If something is wrong it is wrong, pointing ones finger at someone else does not justify an action.

When items come up that offend you state your case.

Fed-up; you can get away with saying anything if you are against the UFCW.
You could always put a and a , these people here can say anything and use them to get away from it!

Again Fed Up you reveal that you are not really "happy" here. So, for the umpteenth time, why are you here?

quote:

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Again Fed Up you reveal that you are not really "happy" here. So, for the umpteenth time, why are you here?

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Because truth holds as much fascination as fiction.

In fact "the truth" is fairly addictive once you begin to hear it. After you get a dose of truth things you once couldn't understand begin making sense, other things which didn't fit begin falling into place. The puzzle begins to take shape.

FU has found the pieces to his puzzle.

quote:

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posted by Fed Up:
But you should know all the unions have DEATH SQUADS.

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Who runs these UFCW DEATH SQUADS?

quote:

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My girlfriend grew up poor in a poor south american country and both her and her family
could see the jest in my comment even though such things were a reality to them.

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If your girlfriend grew up in a country with death squads, she most certainly unless she agreed with them would not find any humor, nor her family in anyone's comments to do with DEATH SQUADS

Which side of the intellectual sword was your girlfiend and her family in regard to DEATH SQUADS? Were they silently supportive of the DEATH SQUADS?

I personally have had my life threatened since joining this website and I take your comments as a serious threat to my life with your comments FU to DEATH SQUADS.

But I expect nothing less in reality from cult followers of any union.

Once clear fact is relevant from the postings in this thread anyway is that the mindset of a few are the reasons why unions as pathetic as the UFCW continue to flurish in my political opinion.

There always will be people who enjoy being followers, incapable of thinking for themseves, incapable of being an independent thinker, unable to comprehend new concepts new ideas. Some people unless their head is burried in a bucket of shit or their head up someone else's ass, they can not function in life.

I am saddened by contributors of this website by how shallow and narrow minded they are to the realities that stare them in the face.

Those stark relalities are some of the main reasons why corruption and autocratic unions like the ufcw exist and prosper at the expense of dues paying members in my political opinion.

Nonetheless I took the threat of a ufcw DEATH SQUAD no matter where you head was at or in, personally. I took it as a threat upon my life. I write articles slamming any union who I feel deserves the free publicity, but it has to be a cult following ufcwer to make the inference of DEATH SQUADS as a rebuttal statement.

It could come no better from the mouth of a cult following ufcwer.

Should anything happen to anyone of us, your IP is our direct line for the police.

If you are any type of man with any integrity or any balls FU, you will be apologizing publicly for your DEATH SQUAD inference.

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Fed-up; you can get away with saying anything if you are against the UFCW.
You could always put a and a , these people here can say anything and use them to get away from it!

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Then why did I get spanked last weekend for taking a shot at Fed Up

The rules are pretty simple but when you have a group of people with very differing views sometimes you do tend to forget them while in a heated debate.

If not for the administrators/moderators can you not see how out of control things could become, Personally I think they do a terrific job managing this site.

But then again maybe I just enjoy being spanked.

quote:

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Nights you took a shot, at me are you trying to kill me

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For that I do apologize Fed Up

But I still don't agree with your views.

Right now I am working on two theories,
One: You are here as a CAW plant to make the UFCW look bad.
Two: If we keep you here long enough we will have a shot at deprogramming you.

Thats okay Nights I think this makes you the second person but replacing the window was costly so I will send you a bill.

Caw plant hmm no don't like the blues they're sad.
Ufcw black very slimming

All union leaders politicians and big business heads get corrupted if you don't you don't last long, also anyone else find it intersting they all hang around together.

The ufcw does have plans to become alot more democratic and for some it is not quick enough but for those people i suggest you take a look at what happened in russia Gorbachov was fast enough for some on democracy and when they elceted Yeltsin it went too fast and corruption really took route and the people were not happy and were wishing for the good ol' days of communism.So be patient evolution takes time when you try to speed it up you get mutations.

As far as my support for the ufcw at my place of work they do offer the most to us in the way of a union advantages, and some of us are working to make sure they have the same to offer everyone so all are equal.

All Iknow is that there as been wheels set in motion that by 2008 i believe elections are to be used for positions such as local president and other officers in the union.
Why do people always complain about change when they get what they want.You want change you get it and now you question the motives for it?

[QUOTE] [All Iknow is that there as been wheels set in motion /QUOTE]

Still sounds like snake oil to me!

Prove to me God is not a woman.

quote:

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The ufcw does have plans to become alot more democratic... - by Fed Up

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quote:

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....there as been wheels set in motion that by 2008 i believe elections are to be used for positions such as local president and other officers in the union. - by Fed Up

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Now how would a guy have this kind of "inside info" unless he was a UFCW mouthpiece?

Mr Corporon has announced general elections by 2008.

This was done because Steve Guiliano filed a civil suit in divisional court. He did not win his case but the court declined to rule because Steve had not exhausted all internal procedures.

At the last international Convention some sort of motion was put forward to bring 1000A's constitution into line with the International.

I may not have all my facts exactly straight but that story came from Mr. Guiliano.

With all the special communication to members, a little bit about the democratization process would be refreshing.

Get a life au.
Conspiracy Guy was meant one to add a little humour to things and too show anyone can site at a keyboard and tell wild and outrages tales.
By the way Conspiracy Guy has been booted from here, funny how after he exposes the whole automatic cashier and human cashier tie into the organization he is booted makes me wonder.Was he getting to close to the truth?

Well at risk to my own life I will admit I hid him in the storm cellar out at the farm.

Actually I go with alternative food sources when needed such as and in honour of au
Egg and spam
Egg, bacon and spam
Egg, badon, sausage and spam
Spam, bacon, sausage and spam
Spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam
Spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam tomato and spam
Spam, spam, spam, egg and spam
Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.

(Choir: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! Lovely Spam! Lovely Spam!)

Or Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a mornay sauce
served in a provencale manner with shallots and aubergines
garnished with truffle pate, brandy and a fried egg on top and spam.
Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam.
Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
Spam spam spam spam!
Hope I don't get booted for spamming
http://www.letssingit.com/?http://www.letssingit.com/monty-python-spam-song-monty-python-sings-1991-hth4knx.html

LOL au does your paranoia know no limits?

Out of curiousity what is with the preoccupation with my balls that has been demonstrated at this site, au you are the second one to inquire about them, I think if that is your thing you are at the wrong site, the members referred to here in the title are not the male members of the human body.

You forgot the spam.

If Buzz violates his own union constitution would that make him a criminal to the labour movement?

Would that make him a civil criminal?

You are not a criminal if you lose a civil suit.

They got rid of debtors prisons a long time ago, for a good reason, people should not be in jail because of money.

In the case at hand, between unions, it is all about money and therefore no crimes are being committed.

Exactly, but who accused anyone of a crime in the RCSS instance?

Unless you are insinuating that it is? Thanks for the equal treatment and being objective. ,

If Buzz is a criminal to the labour movement as you suggest and defend, then I guess those involved involved in the RCSS deal are also in the same class according to your standards .Personally I dont agree with you but you are entitled to your opinion.

It is refreshing to see you coming around and your suggestion is worthy of consideration.

Posted by:
Pinebushes_Scotty

quote:

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FU they just need things to talk about kinda reminds me of the old ladies in a nursing home bitching about how often the diapers get changed

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This blows me away. No wonder we are allowing our seniors to be victim of the healthcare cut backs.

Shame on you Pinebushes_Scotty.

Thanks E I think

As far as the original question is concerned, I like to think that I am part of the labour movement but I don't consider "Basil" to be a criminal. I can't imagine that the majority of union members, CAW or not, would believe him to be a criminal to the labour movement either. But hey, that's just my opinion.

As far as Fed Up is concerned, he has probably stirred up this forum more than any other poster in the past 2-3 years. I still don't believe he is anything beyond being a worker who is content with what his job, through his union, has afforded him and does not want to risk losing any of it by changing unions. For that reason he has made it his mission to try to see that it does not happen. I don't make anything more of it than that. Whatever happens, if it comes to a vote, he only has one like the other workers/members.

Unfortunately, sooner or later, Fed Up can expect to be asked to vote on a contract that does not offer the same to future workers in his workplace. I am sorry, but two-tier contracts are becoming standard practice within the grocery industry. It is surprising that his workplace has not yet been subjected to it. In order to keep what they have, to survive, most workers have voted to sell out their future co-workers. It has been very successful for unions to negotiate these "two-tier" contracts because they can be sold as having no effect on existing members. I have heard it described as a win/win by both the company and the union.

edelio said it well for me, when he described Fed Up's "devils advocate" tone. Frankly I am amazed at the frequency of his posts (all hours of the am & pm) and the sheer number of them (367 in 6 weeks). Even if he is considered to be "trolling rhetoric" by some other members here, I find many of his posts to be quite entertaining. You have to admit he has some quick, although sometimes baffling, comebacks to almost anything.

Some people watch soap operas daily, I just make a couple of visits here. The plots and acting are of no lesser quality.

I am even thinking of setting up a Fan[atics] Club.
The Fed Up Conspiracy of Knowledge.

So to summarize.
shrug, shrug, shrug, eek, wink, evil grin, thumbs up

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Fed Up is Kevin Corporons nephew

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Damn, can't think of any way to blame you for that Fed Up

But I do think it explains a lot about you, or rather your posts and motives for being here.

Fed Up, I will be the first to say that over the past couple of days the quality of some of your posts has improved to the extent that you are now actually talking about things and expressing your views about the issues being discussed - rather than simply insulting others or disrupting the forum. I hope you continue with the former and do your best to resist the temptation to engage in the latter.

You need to understand, however, that some of the behaviour in which both you and Scotty have been engaging lately is troubling and can certainly cause others to question your motives.

As I've stated before, there is not a lot that's off limits here at MfD. If you've checked out discussion forums on the (very few) official labour sites that actually have discussion forums, you will quickly note that we do not practice censorship to nearly the extent that they do (that is deleting posts, editing posts or banning participants) and only do so in pretty compelling circumstances. I'm not sure if it's occurred to you but neither the UFCW nor the CAW provide this kind of wide open interactive public venue for working people (the CLC's workrights.ca site prohibits discussion of controversial subjects like union democracy).

Now, that doesn't mean that anyone here expects you to kiss our asses or anything like that but we do want you to respect some basic and minimal protocols when interacting with others online and - if you don't - we'll call you on it (where possible, without resorting to censorship).

Scotty, your forum signature "Basil is a criminal to the labour movement" is very troubling to us here at MfD for reasons that I've already explained in this thread (In case you are wondering, there is, a difference between the word "corrupt" and the word "criminal". The former refers to a wide range of activity, much of which is not related to criminality. The latter very specifically refers to criminal activity).

Now, as far as I know, no one from the CAW has contacted MfD about this statement and rather than telling you to delete it or booting you from the forum, we gave you an opportunity to explain what you meant by it or to provide us with some support for your contention that Hargrove is a criminal. What you've said so far does not support your claim that Hargrove is a criminal. What you've said is that you're calling him a criminal because you're pissed off that he's broken the CLC house rules. However you may feel about the CLC's no raiding rule, breaking it doesn't make anyone a criminal. Why? Because "raiding" (as you call it) isn't prohibited under the Criminal Code.

I'm not sure what your prompted you to make this statement and I'm hoping that maybe you can elaborate on this a bit for us. Were you just expressing anger towards Hargrove or did the UFCW put you up to it? If it's the latter, then I'm going to suggest to you that whoever advised you was acting recklessly and trying to set us up.

Either way, I'm going to ask you now to remove the word "criminal" from your signature. At this point, this is not a demand. It's your choice. Think about this - objectively rather than emotionally.

Fed Up - making light of the suffering of oppressed communities (for whatever reason) is another boundary that we're asking you to respect while you are on this site (doing something that neither the UFCW nor the CAW permit you to do on their web sites - expressing yourself). Joking about death squads is just not on. If your girlfriend and her family find death squad jokes amusing, that's their business. What's OK within their home is not necessarily OK here at our online community.

Can you think of any reasons why this might be so? Well, here's a good one: Many people find this kind of humour offensive. Many working people live in or come from countries where death squads operate. Many have lost family members or been the victims of torture and other forms of harassment by oppressive regimes. Flippant remarks about death squads inflict pain on them. In addition, reading such remarks in on online discussion forum which some may be visiting for the first time may well have the effect of turning them off of the site or miscontruing it as a venue where very insensitive people make fun of their suffering. This is called a "poisoned environment" - an environment where people do not feel included and are quite likely to feel disinclined to speak or express themselves for fear of being subject to harassment or humiliation. We are not into creating this kind of environment on our site.

If your "right" to make death squad jokes needs to be balanced against the "right" of members of our community to participate in discussion in an environment that is inclusive and free of disparaging and grossly insensitive jokes, the important of the latter will outweigh the former. (Neither is a "right" in any legal sense, btw.)

Your comment to the effect that a UFCW death squad may be looking for me is - whatever your intentions might have been - ill advised. Statements of this kind can easily be construed as threats. You'd be smart not to make them again on this or any other online discussion board.

Taken together, your behaviour (Scotty and Fed Up) makes us and other posters here question your motives. You don't have to explain your motives but you can certainly expect that others will question them.

Since the current version of this site has been up, visitations from UFCW trolls (I'm not calling either of you "trolls" btw) and other UFCW promoters have followed a particular pattern: Whenever something particularly damning or embarrassing to UFCW leaders appears on our site, UFCW trolls/promoters appear (pretty much like clockwork) and engage in activity that is disruptive or that has the potential to create the poisoned environment that I spoke about earlier in this post.

Fed Up, something particularly cringe-inducing to certain UFCW leaders was indeed posted on this site just before you started making with the disruptive behaviour. This, when taken with your multiple forum identities, the considerable differences in the writing style and spelling among your various posts, your relationship to Kevin Corporon and some your expressions (which kind of put me in mind of him), does cause me (and others) to wonder what you are up to.

That said, however, you (both Scotty and Fed Up) are quite free to continue participating in our forum. We ask only that you refrain from:

- Calling people criminals unless they are in fact criminals.
- Disparaging or making light of the suffering of oppressed communities.
-Making statements that could easily be considered threats of violence.
- Engaging in behaviour that is intended to create a poisoned environment.

You may also want to think (and again, I raising this in an effort to help you not to criticize you) about how some of the comments you make reflect on you. In an online forum millions of people are - potentially reading your words. Mos of them will only know you through your words: When Scotty says that the forum participants in this thread are like "Old ladies in a nursing home bitching about how often their diapers get changed" - how do you think that reflects on you? If you present yourself as a supporter of one union or another, how does it reflect on your union? Think about it.

Anyway, I'll check back with you later.

Have great day MfD'ers!

Having read your statement rv I have to wonder what makes you and those you call your community any different those whom you complain about for trying to silence your voice by not wanting their organizational name tied in with this site?
I am sure if this site were to be taken to court again the above statement would prove an interesting counter point to the sites claim of free speech.

Are you asking for my name? Heck until I came here I never heard of you then I read about your case from things you posted, I posted what I did to you because the legality of it interests me but as it is ongoing I respect your need to keep it close to your chest until the outcome of the matter has been resolved.

As far as my motives I have told how I ended up here as for sources if your referring to my source for your case it it found on the web following the link I gave yes I do go to the can lii site to read up on things that involve the law I find it interesting.As far as reforms go my first concern is seeing an overall equality in my workplace then I'll see about the rest of the world

Edelio, I do not consider what I have done, or tried to do a bad experience. If you percieve that, it is a commentary on the ability of the UNION paint me as something that they want me to look like.

I have no motive except union reform and if the perception is otherwise, please help me change it.

The deal is bad and we should have voted on it. God forbid it happens to the warehouse or another group of members.

It is difficult for me understand Fed Up. Either he is a reformer of Unions or a blind follower. He states ,reform from within, but the contracts have been on the downslope for almost 20 years.

Let me tell you some of the advice I got from a well paid professional. He said bad cases win with support and good cases fail without support. If Loblaws employees had held a protest outside Queens Park or at the Board then the case may have succeeded.

At the last general membership meeting we had security and the media was barred, these are steps forward and no meetings since.

It was quite animated and the executive knows the membership is pissed. All the "happy" employees are leaving on March 31 and who will be in favour of the RCSS package then?

As the stores close thing will get worse and worse.

O.K does my signature make everyone feel better??

I guess in all fairness I should have used the termonalogy, if you ever end up going through the legal process again as described in the article "mfd sued by the working voice for america."

You have to start remembering what you write here this is about the third time someone has posted something and then wonders where I get my information from.

Don't worry I believe loss of memory is another side effect of pot use.

Hey PBS I feel you brother, I was doing some interesting reading which I will post later, don't worry Capone and Gotti got caught and even though it took time they had to be treated like regular people until the public had enough.Bullies can only last so long.

So what exactly is so hard for you guys to believe about me being just a guy who works on the floor of a warehouse?

When you slag me you slag a guy who is just a dues paying member who works for a living.

Really, that is interesting as I have never met him.

And what would I be doing?

Seems to me all I advocate is to borrow from edelio is rather trade a white sunfire for a green one I am all for putting some time and money into fixing the white sunfire by the E here is another good soundboard
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/drevil.html

Actually I have already made reference to the first statement.
Hey what can I say I am a complex guy and yes I am a little over weight.
So sorry to disappoint you.
Funny in that photo I see some parts too and in there are the seed that can be planted watered and grow into something strong vibrant and provide something tastey too.

posted 03-27-2004 05:22 PM
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I guess in all fairness I should have used the termonalogy, if you ever end up going through the legal process again as described in the article "mfd sued by the working voice for america."

Okay seeing as your comprehension skills seem to be a bit slow I will repeat again, I am one person.

My knowledege of any legal proceedings extends to only what I have read here or on the web.

The only reason I mentioned any legal proceedings is, if your going to advocate your right to free speech then you must extend that right to others, and that courtesy must be extended to those with whom you disagee with ie ufcw supporters.

If you want limitations set on others then you also have to respect that another may wish to limit what you say, espicially if anything said is in violation of any agreements that have been signed.

The more you talk the less you seem to know and what a surprise another moderator that wants to poo poo me, read on the other threads why i dislike the caw before you start stating facts about me, and hey don't bother trying to figure out what turns me on like I told another moderator who seemed preoccuped with my balls it is none of your business.

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posted by weiser:
Okay, Fed Up. Tell us in five short sentences what you like about the UFCW (Other than your assertion that they lie and do backroom deals).

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Is it true or not true that the CAW are known to do backroom deals?????

Well we know they like raiding other Unions ... ITS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN

weiser TELL ME WHATS SO GREAT ABOUT THE CAW?

Basil is a clown!

The CAW can't "raid" anyone if they won't sign a card. If the UFCW was so damned hot, they wouldn't have to worry about raids.

I'm not saying that the CAW is the be-all, end-all. What I'm saying is that they aren't the employer's choice. The UFCW is the employers choice. The employer picked your union for you and they've picked it time and again.

It would be against the law for Loblaws management to pick any union that would diminish investor income. They are required by law to act in the best interest of the shareholders. It stands to reason that by picking the UFCW they are acting in the best interest of the Loblaws shareholders.

Sweetheart deals are a UFCW specialty. You said it yourself that backroom deals are standard fare.

Bush boy, for every dime Loblaws gives the UFCW, it gets 75 cents in return.

When you can have the unfettered ability to create spin, you have the ability to keep the majority of employees in the lower pay scales.

In fact Loblaws has one of the cheaper, if not the cheapest, contracts. It ain't what's in the contract; it's what the company has on paper in the top drawer and what special deals allow it to conduct its business in a way that others might not be able to.

Consider that Loblaw simply gives the UFCW all new stores that open.

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posted by weiser:
Consider that Loblaw simply gives the UFCW all new stores that open.

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YOU DONT KNOW SH&T

If you actually looked in our contract maybe the first 3 pages or so you would notice that UFCW negotiated in there contract that any new Loblaws facility is UFCW reconized.
Why did'nt the great CAW do that in there contract?
BECAUSE THEY SHOULD STAY IN THE FIELD THEY ARE GOOD AT- AUTO, PLANTS ETC...

UFCW seems to have done good for us in the NG warehouses.
The caw does okay in the auto sector until all it's members lose jobs due to the caw pricing it's members out of the market

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posted by Fed Up:
UFCW seems to have done good for us in the NG warehouses.
The caw does okay in the auto sector until all it's members lose jobs due to the caw pricing it's members out of the market

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One of the reasons for the UFCW's ineffectiveness as a bargaining agent is its adoption of free market economic principles with respect to its relationship with its members. If we accept your claim that union members can be "priced out of the market" by higher wages then we are accepting that the free market will govern wages regardless of whether a group of workplace contributors (I'm going to try to use this descriptor - see my post in this thread) in an industry are unionized or not. What then is the purpose of having a union? If the market makes the final decision, there's no point in having a union.

Contributers at A&p earn more now than loblaw contributers.

The Dept Heads now have an hourly wage superior to Loblaws "managers".

I wonder what happened. That warning came in November of 2002. What a bunch of crappola.

The mouthpiece doesn't identify who was defamed or what the defamation consists of. What words or phrases offened whom?

I took a peek at the site, and I wasn't confused for one second. I knew right away that the site wasn't an official CAW site. Besides, the National and the Local in question are two distinct entities. The National can defend the National, the Local is supposed to be semi-autonomous and has to take care of itself.

Buzz should be ashamed to have the world know that the CAW has used oppressor tactics to shut down public dissent.

These union oppressors avoid the courts like Dracula avoids daybreak. To go to court opens them up to coughing up documents and to having the light shone in their darkest of corners.

Ya, but at least the CAW moved ahead rather than backwards:

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Berman, David

Canadian Business

April 24, 1998

Striking Maple Leaf Foods workers thought management was the enemy. Now they say their union did them in Pardon us if we shed a few crocodile tears for the leaders of the United Food and Commercial Workers union (UFCW). First, Maple Leaf Foods Inc. hammered the UFCW in its recent strike against the Toronto- based company.

Now, as a result, UFCW members have lost so much confidence in their leaders that some of the rank and file are preparing a lawsuit against the union for failing to properly represent its workers during the standoff. With the UFCW looking hapless and self-serving - and Maple Leaf executives preening themselves as the friends of labor - history may well recall these recent events as lessons in how not to handle a strike.

Disputes at various Maple Leaf meat plants in Ontario and Alberta were resolved last month, with the victory medals going to Maple Leaf, which won up to 40% in wage reductions from it's workers. But strife within the UFCW continues in Edmonton....

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Maybe the reason why the UFCW doesn't applaud its "partners" is because it spends too much time face down or with its arms wrapped around employers.

Here's part of what a former UFCW International Vice-President wrote:

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HOW THE UFCW LEADERSHIP RESPONDS TO CORRUPTION

After International Union Vice President Leo Cinaglia was convicted in federal court for taking a bribe from an employer, former UFCW International Union President William Wynn praised Cinaglia at an International Union executive board meeting for not informing on others in the union. An International Union President's more appropriate response would have been to condemn Cinaglia for taking bribes from the employer and selling the workers out.

When former UFCW International Secretary-Treasurer Joseph Talarico pled guilty in federal court to stealing more than one million dollars from his former local union's members, current UFCW International Union President Douglas Dority and former International Union President Wynn stated the following in letters to the federal court at Talarico's sentencing.

[Letter to Judge Frederick Scullin, Jr., from Dority, dated September 3, 1997, read:] I am writing this letter on behalf of a very dear and close friend of mine, Joseph Talarico. …During my time with him [Talarico], I was able to closely monitor his actions and found that he was not only intelligent and creative, but also very honest and forthright with people… …In my mind, his [Talarico's] integrity is unquestioned…

[Letter to Judge Frederick Scullin, Jr., dated October 7, 1997, from former International President Wynn:] …He [Talarico] is one of the most decent, honest and loyal persons we have ever known (Emphases added.)

Shocking statements from top UFCW officials to make about an International Union officer who stole more than a million dollars from the members.

When REAP exposed a million-dollar housing scam that former International President Wynn pulled on the union, UFCW officials went around the country holding fund-raising affairs for him in order to replace the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was forced to pay back. When Talarico was indicted for embezzling union funds, officials within UFCW tried to put together a nation-wide legal fund for him.

In a span of four years, the two highest ranking union officers of the 1.3 million member UFCW Union (International Union President and Secretary-Treasurer) were forced to leave office for trying to steal more than two million dollars from the members. Their reward for these misdeeds and betrayal of the members was praise from their peers, fund-raising events and a big pension check every month for the rest of their lives. It is, therefore, not difficult to figure out why the UFCW leadership is not alarmed about corruption within the union.

THE UFCW RECORD OF SHAME

UFCW International Union Vice President Leo Cinaglia pled guilty in federal court to taking illegal cash payments from an employer. Federal Prosecutor Paul Zoubek stated: "…the union official [Cinaglia] put the money in his pocket and when he left the meeting, the employer felt he had the union official in his pocket." Zoubek continued: "Cinaglia used his position to line his pockets."

UFCW International Vice President Gary Duckett was sought by the FBI as a bank robbery suspect. Traveling from Philadelphia to Washington, D.C., with the law hot on his trail, Duckett was scheduled to meet officials at the UFCW International Union headquarters. Days later police found his body floating in a Washington, D.C., river with a gun shot wound to his head.

UFCW International Union President William Wynn was forced to pay back over one million dollars to the union after REAP exposed an underhanded housing transaction between Wynn and UFCW. Wynn sold his house to the union for hundreds of thousands of dollars more than it was worth and then lived in the house rent free for almost two years. It is worth noting that the four highest officials of UFCW, including current UFCW International President Douglas Dority, approved this scandalous transaction

UFCW Comptroller Maria Coleman, a high-ranking employee at the UFCW International Union headquarters, embezzled more than $1.7 million from the union.

UFCW International Union Secretary-Treasurer Joseph Talarico pled guilty in federal court to embezzling more than one million dollars from the local union he formerly headed. U.S. Attorney Thomas Maroney told the Court that "Joseph C. Talarico should be viewed as a disgrace to the labor movement. We urge the Court to impose the punishment that Joseph C. Talarico richly deserves..."

The 1990s is a decade of scandals of major proportions within UFCW. The Wynn, Coleman and Talarico wrongdoings alone involved more than four million dollars of the members' dues. The wrongdoing by the UFCW International Union officers listed above took place in a six-year period from 1992 to 1998. While there has been no allegation of anything illegal, nevertheless, given the past performance of the corruption within the UFCW leadership, eyebrows were raised when it was learned that from May 1, 1998 through April 30, 1999, the UFCW pension fund lost some $75 million in the stock market and the pension fund came up $47 million short during the same period. It would appear that the decade of the 1990s will close as it began, a decade of corruption and scandal for UFCW involving millions and millions of dollars.

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Prolly had to do with this set of bargaining. GM capitulated and the CAW was happy:

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GM 'real money' offer pleases union: BIG THREE CONTRACT TALKS
Edmonton Journal.

Contract negotiations between the Canadian Auto Workers union and General Motors Canada took a turn for the better Sunday as the Big Three automaker removed lump-sum payments from its offer and the union hinted a strike is now unlikely.

The company's new package "removes most of the offensive proposals that General Motors tabled with us a couple of days ago," CAW president Buzz Hargrove told a news conference Sunday.

"We are now comfortable that we're moving towards a settlement, as opposed to a strike."

CAW is negotiating for more than 20,000 workers.

On Friday, GM offered a three-per-cent increase in the first year of the three-year contract, along with lump-sum payments.

Hargrove lashed out, calling the offer "the worst first offer that we have ever received in my history of bargaining that goes back to 1979."

But on Sunday, his tone was more positive as he said "we have real money on the table, for all three years." Still, he added, the increases aren't large enough and money remains a problem.

Proposed caps on health-care benefits for CAW members have also been largely removed in GM's new offer.

While both sides wouldn't disclose wage-increase details for the second and third years of the contract, GM Canada spokesman Stew Low said the wage increases are "big money."

The new offer "basically looked at every item that's on (Hargrove's) list and, we believe, gone a long way to address each one of those items," Low said.

A strike deadline remains set for midnight Tuesday night and although progress is being made, Hargrove said, "I want to be absolutely clear: there's a lot of very tough issues that we've still not resolved."

Low added that the hours leading up to the deadline will focus on finding common ground on a range of issues.

Those issues also include union demands that GM invest in its Ontario plants in Oshawa and St. Catharines and that it find new work to revive its now-closed muscle-car plant in Quebec.

Current Big Three wages in Canada are $27.70 an hour for assembly- line workers and $33.10 hourly for electricians, mechanics and other tradespeople.

An agreement with GM would set a standard for Ford and DaimlerChrysler in subsequent talks, in what's known as pattern bargaining.

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They do if the Union will stand up to the company.

If all 3 Unions involved in the RCSS deal had stuck together and said NO, would Loblaws build a new banner and risk another union organizing them?

The UfCW has not been suceessful in organizing a walmart or a Costco and very limited success with Sobeys, could the organize an RCSS?

I think that a Union that is powerful is a benefit to members.

Imagine all workplace contributers in ONE union, Imagine the bargaining power? With a socially responsible leader, would Mike Harris have been allowed to cut welfare and gut the Ontario government? No way, province wide strike by everyone. Same thing in BC and accross Canada. Could a single UNION force health benefits in the USA for all workplace contributers?

Leaders will have opportunities to line their own pockets and we are all human, however when it is exposed, kick the bastards out.

That is the idea of democracy, put some checks and balances in so that corrections can be made.

Most people are honest, thus most elected Union leaders are honest.

Automakers might mothball a plant, and reopen it when market conditions improve. However, if the Quebec plant closes, it's gonzo, kaput, over, forever.

The retail grocery industry is different; it has closures as a normal part of doing business. For example, in 2002, Loblaw Companies reported a "6.9% increase in net retail square footage related to the opening of 75 new corporate and franchised stores and the closure of 58 stores. The weighted average retail square footage increased 6.2%, net of closures."

Older stores have a life span and employers factor that life span into their financial plans. Older stores are regularly bulldozed and rebuilt or moved to an area with better demographics.

That's where workers get fooled. The employer says, "give me concessions or I'll close." The concessions aren't, for the most part, going to be a deciding factor in whether many stores stay open or not. The employer can close stores that were going to close anyway and use that as a lesson as to what happens when you don't do what you're told. However, the stores will close even if you do what you're told.

A clerk might not know this sort of stuff off hand, but the damned bozos who get paid $145 thousand per year, should, and they do. As defacto managers, they keep the truth from the members. The union gets more members (more profits) and the company gets bigger profits.

No of course not why do anything to protect jobs when you can just move in on other unions and collect their dues instead.

P.S. Best of luck to the U.A.W up in Alliston, hope you can reintroduce real solidarity back into the canadian auto worker, or maybe the caw can at least learn what it really means to organize from your lead.

So 2000 people now have job assurances seems better to me that 1400.
Again I have to askk bb if your all for layoffs why do care now if the part timers lose their jobs or start at minimun wage?

the way you think it is better to earn no money than some money.

1. the next as we see very often they close the doors.

2. the guys at the bottom of the senority lists rejoice when an higher employee is no longer employed so they can move up and have job security

3 sounds like good ol greed.

Once your out the door you have to start over again.

I spent Monday talkng to guys who were around when the mill had to make concession they did not like like but they looked around them to see what options they had they realized it was better too swallow a bitter pill and wait for the next time it came to bargin to get back what they lost.All the while keeping their foots in union jobs and gaining senority.They will now have the chance to benefit further from the new contracts including buy outs.I talked to one guys who had been around 20 plus years and said they were the ones who decided what was going to best for themselves.

FU It wasn't a matter of fighting another day the Co gave incentives to those members who at the time where about to retire. They gave generous packages to all, even those who were hired as Summer help they got 5 grand senior 20+ got over 75 G's. People who were on their last legs were in the office being told that if the contract doesn't go through they will be fired. The Co " divided and concored" and kicked a$$. They got rid of those who were the more millitant unionists and was left with a "younger" broken union. The membership had NO CHOICE they were bought or intimidated. Try talking to people who were there and don't have a union FT position or those who are looking for one.

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I was talking to guys who were like you and me guys working on the floor not stewards just hard working decent family men some of whom are planning retirement very soon others who will be working another 10 or 15 years, refering to your union brothers and sisters as broken people is harsh some people see things like a chess game sacrifice here to make gains 2 or 3 moves later.

They see the oppertunities now for gain and for more in the future.

The human spirit cannot be broken, when a man in the face of daunting odds bides his time until he can over comes those odds he shows us the wisdom in a quiet resolve than the foolishness in a loud futile shoving match.

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Don't worry you UFCW members you may be getting it dry now but if you wait a few years and just continue to take it, I'm sure eventually K-Y will be added, and then it will all be worth the wait.

Won't it ?

If asked to go RCSS today it would mean for me.
$10,000 pay cut.
Lower benefits.
Out of union.
No Christmas bonus.
Working weekends compulsory.
Reduced pension. (see pay cut)
No sick days.
...

I am Fed Up with your ufcw bullshit.

Wait my ass.

The company will never waist K-Y on you, it needs it to keep the UFCW happy.

Oh and never mind here's your reply:

"becaus the ufcw ist he best onion"

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Hey nights if you do not work at amplegrove why do you seem to care so much?

No one is aking you to see where you can get the best deal, so why worry?

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The last time I checked it was My union brothers 1000a that you are trying to help sell your B.S. to, and I believe they need to be told the truth about how the ufcw works, and the fact is it's time to send a message out to all unions and that being, you work for us not vise versa.

If the only way to get that point across is to start voting them out so be it, sooner or later we will wake them up, anyway what do you care?

Haven't you been preaching "wait" or "be patient" or eventually you'll be dead and won't care or something anyway?

Posted from amplegrove

Becaus the ufcw ist he best onion !

Keep grasping brother !

Enough said ?