Maple Grove (may the BEST Union win)
The other threads are getting a little out of hand and difficult to understand, so here is a nice fresh place to start.
To reebok, slic, pinebush_scotty and Fed Up
A little glimps of things to come!
Here is a LINK to some interesting reading.
quote:
STRUCTURE OF THE UFCW
INTERNATIONAL UNION
With 1,386,836 members at the end of 1998, UFCW is one of the largest International Unions in North America. In 1997, UFCW was ranked the fourth largest union in the AFL-CIO, coming in behind the Teamsters, AFSCME and SEIU. Since UFCW does not pay per capita to the AFL-CIO for every member it has, its total membership numbers are listed much lower in the Federation than what they really are. UFCW was created in the summer of 1979 with the merger of the 550,000 member Amalgamated Meat Cutter & Butcher Workmen and 600,000 member Retail Clerk International Unions. From its creation in 1979 to the present, UFCW has been and continues to be a hodgepodge of many union mergers. UFCW membership growth has come primarily from such mergers.
PARTIAL LISTING OF UNIONS THAT MERGED WITH UFCW
Barbers and Beauticians: 20,000
United Retail Workers Local 881: 22,000
Insurance Workers: 15,000 Canadian Brewery Workers: n/a
National Brotherhood of Packinghouse Workers: 2,700
Retail Wholesale Department Store Workers: 90,000
Independent Food Handlers: 5,000
Int'l. Union of Life Insurance Agents: 1,500
United Garment Workers: 15,000
Textile Workers: 15,000
Distillery Workers: 15,000
International Chemical Workers: 40,000
Montgomery County Workers: 10,000
Production, Sales & Service Union: 9,000
Since 1979, when UFCW was created, it has merged at least 14 smaller unions into UFCW. For a number of reasons, the UFCW International Union leadership has come under sharp criticism for playing the merger game. UFCW is not focused on organizing unorganized workers; instead, it is growing its membership numbers the easy way - by union mergers. Over a period of time the UFCW International Union leadership destroys the cultures, traditions and history of the unions that are merged into UFCW. Further, politically, structurally and operationally, the merged unions are quickly immersed into UFCW's top down business union way of life.
DeMoN
Demon (or anyone else) - would you mind answering some questions for me, a new person who hasn't really been following the debate so far?
1. When is the open period at Maple Grove?
2. Is anyone there considering any other unions / other options, or is this pretty much going to be a head-to-head fight between CAW and UFCW? If it is, as I suspect, the second one, in your opinion why did this boil down so clearly into two choices?
3. What ever happened with respect to that no-raiding pact between the old RW union and UFCW, that stopped the ballots from being counted last time? I presume that the no-raiding pact is no longer an issue? Why?
4. Has there been much turnover at the warehouse since last year, or is this pretty much going to be the same group of people voting now as who were involved in this dispute last year?
Thanks in advance.
Open period is starts in April I believe and it is head to head simply for the reason that the majority of warehouses in NG system are ufcw and we have been ufcw since we started.
When employees from another warehouse which was closed when their work went to Maple Grove some decided that their union should come with them.The fighting will probably just as fierce though some of those who were in the warehouse since day one have posted out or quit and restarted part time in other warehouses so as to avoid being stuck in maple grove if the caw get in.
Although I do not believe the ufcw employees from fortinos voted in the last one.
Demon quit being a hypocrite your only caw because your union merged with the caw you did not decertify your last union and join the caw. A select few repersentitives voted and your former union bosses got jobs with the caw and that is how you came to be caw. It is better to invite than to steal.
I am sure one day if it was in the best interest of the caw and the ufcw they would merge and it would be one big union then all this fighting will have been pretty stupid.Don't think it can't happen unions will follow the corpate world and right now mergers are huge.
I hope??? workers gain out of the whole deal, whatever it may be in the end.
When will the next C.A.W meeting take place?
I want to come and bring some friends that have a couple of questions.
BEWARE DeMoN, I am bringing a priest 
and thy will be done
on earth as it is in...
Just had to bring a lil bit of old time religion into the pot - stir it up..Mix it around, overbake it, and please, post the outcome
quote:
posted by Dougle:
Hey fedup read what I found about mergers.
http://www.ufcw.net/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=000508&p=7#bottom
I was wondering why the UFCW1000A took over for the UFCW175 in Hamilton before the transfer of employee's? They didn't do it at the other warehouses. 
geesh, you are listening to the DeMoN a little too much.
I would not trust someone who sits at his dinner table and disscusses things to people in management.
Listen to your brothers and sisters from all the D.C's
Come to pinebush and have a chat with a few of us.
Go back to the places you have worked and talk to your former Co-Workers.
Dont listen to the DeMoN he is out for himself and the other senior guys that came from Kitchener.
That is true for they are the ones that screwed the junior guys and their Part-time employees.
Find our god (UFCW) and get rid of the Evil (DeMoN) 
In answer to the 175 question its fairly simple. From what I understand we had our own sort of voluntary reck clause for any new "Fortinos" warehouse. During the term of the agreement we had; loblaws purchased our banner and was planning a closure for our warehouse as part of the maplegrove plan. Being that it was to be a "Loblaws" warehouse,we had no claim to represent the building as our own. Seeing as our contract was coming due with no plan for renewal (our deal was with fortinos,not loblaws) Local 1000a,the union who owned rights to the new building, held a vote to allow us to dovetail into the new building as new members who held their full seniority ,with the obvious exceptions , as long as they stayed in that facility.They voted the same conditions for other closing warehouses, EVEN those of different unions all together. The employees from the Fortinos Hamilton plant held a vote at our locals' HQ as to wether or not to merge with 1000a. It was an obvious ,lopsided, yes majority. Thats about all I can think of now,,G'nite.
What does it matter who sits at Demons table. Perhaps we should be looking to see what union personel sits in the CO box seats at the Kitchener ranger games or the leafs?
I've listened to my brothers and sisters at the other DC's I've worked at. I hear the frustration of not being heard, The Dispare that nothing will change, the wispers of mistrust " will they do it to us?", The anger of being lied to in 98, the resentfulness of taking concessions in 94, The hostility about the possiability that their building will close and they may be forced to Mississauga. The confusion over the reasons why they can't bump into jobs at other warehouses.
I sure hope that was good not god
Dougle,
You are like an old wives tale. Worry worry worry. Why worry so much? Show some backbone, show some confidence. Embrace the future. I am very much looking forward to negotiations. I think it is an exciting time.
Why are you worried about oh no not "1994".
I mean what do you, and others like you, care. After all, and I am positive that at the very least I have some back up on this from "edelio"; if the Company, Loblaw, that you, and others like you, hate so much, F**KS you, what's the big deal. I am POSITIVE you, and others like you, could find another job that will pay you $22.00 plus an hour plus benefits, plus, Christmas Bonus.
Slic your condescending attitude towards Dougle is repetetive and boring, he has a right to post as you do without being maligned on personal level.
His attitude may be your attitude some day?
While you may look forward to negotiations... how about this prediction from a bystander you wont get much money maybe 50 cents an hour, the company will increase contributions to the pension fund, the Union will fight hard but the company wont back down and whatever you get be thankful for because this is the best deal we can get. There may be a strike vote and you will get unanimous recomendation to accept from the bargaining committee and it will be passed.
How can I make this prediction? This is what always happens!!
Okay bb if that is always what happens why are you upset?
Predictability is a good thing I like life has too many surprises already.
It is fundamentally wrong. I feel the Union should bargain in good faith on behalf of members...do you?
In your opinion did everything go okay in SoCal? Should the Union have widened the strike and gone "all out". I think that they should have and the warning signs are there in the Bay area and Chicago. Will the UFCW learn from SoCal or will other members get the same treatment?
The Loblaw store contract is up in July 2006, should we prepare or just be nibbled to death and after the 1 year contract without concessions....should we all be ready for another bad contract?
Our leaders have the ability to strategize, line up the warehouse contract with the store contracts and bargain them all together. Then line up all UFCW contracts and do it the same as the auto industry...set the bar and negotiate with the most profitable first.
I know this crap and so do they...it isnt difficult...so why dont they do it. I realize it is easier to say than do but some of it can be done.
Thx bb couldn't have said it better myself. 
Do you make a decent wage bb? I know dougle does I know I will.
In a couple of years I am sure the union will go and try their very best to get it;s members the best possible wages.
As far as getting warehouse support if Dougle gets his way you will lose the maple grove warehouse in the support system.
Now I am going to give you a personal story and see what you take from it
When I was 22 I was forced to quit work and had to go on welfare I was put on a waiting list to go to London Ontario for an operation to have a brain tumour and some epiliptic tissue removed as I was having 3 and 4 grand mal seizures a day I was 25 when I finally got in after I waited patiently. My family doctor asked me one time why did I not get on the phone and write letters and really push to get in sooner. My reply was simply I knew they would get around to helping when they could and when it was my turn did I really want them pissed off at me, see I have a philosophy that I live life by don't piss off people that will be in a position that can help me.
Your theory is fine and I am comfortable with your right to espouse your theory. My theory is, when something is worth fighting for, like your principles or your rights, if you shirk your moral obligations it is difficult to sleep at night.
Those must have been difficult times and I am pleased you overcame your situation.
I am not sure it is apt to talk about your health in relation to this discussion but since you raised the issue....the problem with waiting, as you did, is your health could have been more seriously compromised.
Loblaws is a very profitable Company, why havent workers shared in the wealth?
When I started in 1987 I made $15.00, I now make $20.50 17 years later. Loblaws profit when I began was in the 10 million to 15 million range. Now it is in the 150 million to 180 million range. Do those numbers seem fair? When I talk about Loblaws there are 2 Loblaws...LCL has all banners and is significantly bigger than Loblaws (the chain).
Worker salaries increase 33%, Company profit 1000%.
Please do not reply, I am lucky to have a job or I am unskilled and uneducated. I feel that I have contributed in some way to Company success and have earned all my wages over the years.
No I wouldn't say your lucky I'd say you did well for yourself way to go.Now as far as the company profits go I wonder how much debt the accumlated along the way.As my wages have gone up so has my line of credit, the same is true for companies they may make 100 million but they may owe 300 million.Loblaws had to sell a chunk of stock a couple of yearsd back to get some more investment capital.Their profits increased but the cost have undoubtly done so too for example
the construction of RCSS across canada,product manufacturing,advertising,product costs , labour cost insurance went up dramtically last year.Loblaws like the working people that make up the staff have taken advantage of low interests rates to build.
I also suspect that the GM part of company did not turn out as well as expected in the profit books they may be even losing money on that department.
When I look at the new contract the company handed down it looks like they are "borrowing" from the employees in the stores needing their wages to repay some of it's debt, unfortunate yes and I sincerely hope that the union will rectify this at the first possible chance.For those of us that are doing well I hope we do not begrudge any gains that can be made on behalf of those who are not enjoying the good wages the rest of us do even if that means are wages stay where they are for a couple of years.
quote:
Loblaws had to sell a chunk of stock a couple of yearsd back to get some more investment capital.Their profits increased but the cost have undoubtly done so too for example
the construction of RCSS across canada,product manufacturing,advertising,product costs , labour cost insurance went up dramtically last year.
Yes but have you noticed that while the employers are "struggling" 
to keep up with overhead, company heads (and machineheads) are giving themselves unreasonable, outrageous salary increases?
It is really difficult and unreasonable to rationalize "poor company" when the entire cost_of_doing_business parade is staged.
I have question have you gotten anywhere or anyone else gotten anywhere by calling names and shouting at the powers that be?
It is not fair that someone gets a golden parachute while others are left to welfare, unemployment and wages that do not allow someone to provide the basics of life.
But can oyu or anyone say that they have not tried to get the best out of life for themselves?
See this is what is always going on the few or the one is always getting something better than the rest, so some of the those who are not happy try to get more for themselves at the expense of others.
An example of this recently here Ontario is when the leaders Cupe and Opseu called for the government to increase taxes for so they could get more money,the Caw has asked for tax breaks so auto companies will build here.So let's see I have politicians to pay out of taxes,opseu,cupe and the caw all of them and their members benefit but what about the other people where are all you to rise against them to protect the working poor?
Fed Up
quote:
So let's see I have politicians to pay out of taxes,opseu,cupe and the caw all of them and their members benefit but what about the other people where are all you to rise against them to protect the working poor?
By getting rid of Unions that sign backroom concessionary deals at the expense of their members needs (in favour of their own wants), we are helping the working poor.
Does this mean you are no longer a caw organizer Demon?
They have done the same thing.
Fedup it like this if you and your neighbour both have the same house and both are going to sell it. You want to get the best value for your home while your neighbour wants to just off load it for what ever price. He lists his home $20,000 lower than your price.
What does that do to the value of your home? It goes down.
See when ever a union or a person takes concessions, (like the neighbour, or 1000A 1994) it will snowball throughout the industry and becomes a trend(your value, other Lce warehouses), then all the Co's (buyers,) will be asking for the samething.(which they did.)
The UFCW is claiming to negotiate better contracts. I got a Card from the UFCW stating just that and they use peterbouro as the example. 1000A get's $22.00 an hour plus a shift premium Christmas bonus, cola, and PT rate of 13.25 after 24 months. CAW has $21.30 no shift premium no Christmas bonus no cola and the PT gets $12.00 after 36 months. But there is a flaw. Location. See in Peterbouro the majority live in detached homes between $80,000 to $200,000 Where as in Toronto which would be the same as Mississauga (which the contract was originally negotiated) is $200,000 and then some. So for the person living and working in Peterbouro, s/he may be paid less but has more money in pocket. I now would ask which would you want?
If you want to know if the costs of homes are true then heres a link. Stats Canada - Value of Dwelling and Structural Type of Dwelling 2001
You ever been to Peterborough Dougle?
I lived there for 5 years there may be cheaper houses on the average but what is the cost of the cheap one that bring down the price of overall market.By the way Dougle who is the main employer of people from Peterborough?
When I lived there most travelled to oshawa to work for GM they were caw members.
So why is Peterborough not more prosporus?
I love this line of thought though I hear more and more from caw pushers when the caw negotiates less for their members it is the ufcw's fault, when caw members lose work it is the fault of free trade, when the employees in kitchener were under the two tier lower pay benefits and penision it was the steel workers fault and when buzz hargrove did a back room deal with onex it was necessary because the airline was insolvent.
Dougle,are you saying that a company has the right to pay me according to my home address,,not what the work is worth? And that we as union members should consider it OK if they do this and believe it to be "understandable"? What of people that commute? Are we to assume that we will be payed according to where the work location is and not by the simple success of the business.If thats the arguement than why haven't all the warehouses been built in the poor slums of Ontario and not booming centres of business like Cambridge?
I apologize that I dont have a link for this,,it was sent to my e-mail. Interesting read though:
Canadian News Digest
Thursday, November 4
By The Canadian Press
Air Canada unions oppose Onex bid for airline
TORONTO (CP) -- Furious Air Canada employees blistered union leader Buzz Hargrove on Thursday and threatened labour strife not seen before if Onex Corp. succeeds in its bid to restructure the Canadian airline industry.
Anger spilled over as Hargrove met with Canadian Auto Workers representatives from Air Canada, who criticized him for his public support of Onex's $2.1-billion bid to combine the two airlines into one national carrier. Such a merger would also chop 5,000 jobs through attrition and buyouts.
Onex chairman Gerry Schwartz and Hargrove negotiated a deal last weekend that gives CAW members job protection and enhanced pension benefits despite Onex's plan to reduce the combined workforce at the two carriers.
Union leaders railed against Hargrove for his perceived friendliness with Schwartz and for not consulting them before going public with the arrangement. "I don't trust Gerry Schwartz," a defensive Hargrove told irate union members at an airport hotel ballroom. "It's not about Gerry Schwartz. It's about a legal and binding document only if he wins the bid to buy Air Canada."
In a shot at union leaders undermining the deal he struck with Onex, Hargrove said: "We lose our bargaining power when people turn on their union." Meanwhile, Onex was working late Thursday on a counter-offer to Air Canada's sweetened bid, which observers say could come as early as today.
The UFCW says "Show me the money" Well the persons who live in peterbouro have more of it in pocket. Isn't that the bottom line.
Yes Co's take things like cost of living into concideration when determining labor costs. They take the city that they live in as one of the determining factors because this is where they will draw their main employment from. If they pay an employee too little in a place that has high cost of living, they will not attract long term employee's. With a faster turn over rate of FT or PT the cost of training, and skilled labor goes up. And on the flip side if they pay too much in a place that has a lower cost of living they could lose their employee's earlier because that employee has been able to put more money into a retirement plan, as well as the employee may not be attending work on a regular basis because s/he makes more than enough to pay all the bills.
Do the people of the world get paid the same for the same work? No so why wouldn't that apply to our little corner as well?
As for being paid by the success of the business I would draw your attention to bb's statement to Fedup.
quote:
When I started in 1987 I made $15.00, I now make $20.50 17 years later. Loblaws profit when I began was in the 10 million to 15 million range. Now it is in the 150 million to 180 million range. Do those numbers seem fair? When I talk about Loblaws there are 2 Loblaws...LCL has all banners and is significantly bigger than Loblaws (the chain).
Worker salaries increase 33%, Company profit 1000%.
Employee availiability, standards, Security, could be the factors involved as to why warehouses are not built in slums of ontario. Remember that Co's for the most part have no souls and the bottom line is how much $.
I don't feel that employees should just lie down and get stepped on, take things as status quoe, or believe it to be understandable when they feel that they are being mistreated. I would encourage employee's to "Rage Against the Machine" to get what they want and need.
quote:
when the caw negotiates less for their members it is the ufcw's fault
When the Co bought and intimidated the UFCW contract of concessions of 1994 they did just like you said:
quote:
the cost of the cheap one that bring down the price of overall market.
So Dougle you are saying the caw is a weak union that has to follow the lead of the ufcw.So in essance if we vote caw we are getting ufcw light minus bonuses better benefits, portability and higher wages.
Oh I forgot we get to vote but Buzz does not have to listen to us.
So why are indivuals trying to bring in the caw again?
I'm saying that the RW-DSU was a weak union. They were the Ones who negoiated the contracts for Peterbouro during those times. CAW has brought it up to where it is today. And this Isn't shy of what we make on paper. Don't forget that what is in their contract is what THEY VOTED for. Not what was determined for them.
Oh ok so it is ok and makes the caw great to take the best things other unions do such as the ufcw fight against labour standards but it is not their fault that they cannot get better contracts for their members.Maybe the fact is the caw does not know how to negiotate a contract that does not involve the layoffs of hundereds of workers.
Although it may sound harsh, I am in favour of layoffs, as long as there are no concessions. This will bring solidarity and bargaining power.
The company will always threaten job loss. That is a standard bargaining ploy. Equal pay for equal work, NO LESS. When the second tier comes in so the company can save costs and the Union can save dues...Members needs go out the window.
IF there are layoffs and I say IF, those who remain know for sure it was not a ploy and that the Union did its best. The Membership is in tact and united at the same wage level.
A layoff is better than everyone taking a hit or Union solidarity being compromised.
That is a fundamental difference between the Caw and the UFCW the dues structure, UFCW by member and CAW by hours worked. Which dues structure benefits WORKERS most?
So I pay my dues support my union and unless I am high enough in senority I can be sacrificed so the highest in senority can keep their jobs all in the name of solidarity. Hmmm so my goal is to become number one in senority so my job is safe and I get the most.
By the way our dues are paid by hours worked also I forget the exact formula right now but I will get back to you with it.
That is exactly the way it is Fed Up, not some idealistic theory. I hope you are not under the false assumption that you have job security? Your job is about as secure as the economy and the "big boys" whims, as long as you dont piss em off.
So you just tow the party line, pray and sleep easy at night until....?????
So following that line of thought we may as well disband all unions.
I can accept that but then why did you get upset about the RCSS deal?
It is after all just a fact of life.
Seniority is a fact in Unions and that is the way it should be. If there are layoffs they should be by seniority. You are subject to it, as I am. That is what I am saying.
If the Company decides to layoff there is nothing the union can do about it ever. A union cannot save a job as they do not pay wages to the members.
You dont think companies employ people they dont need do you?
Why is this so difficult to understand?
It is not difficult to understand, but I thought everyone here was all about equality and fairness if the rich have money why shouldn't we seems to be the consenus.You yourself earlier today mentioned how much money loblaws makes in profits yet your wages have not matched that.So given that line of thought if 50 are 51,000 and the company needs to save 51,000 in the fair scheme of things shouldn't each guy give up a thousand so they can all make money?
Or is it a case of equality and fairness but keep your hands off my money?
quote:
50 are 51,000 and the company needs to save 51,000 in the fair scheme of things shouldn't each guy give up a thousand so they can all make money?
No..... then the Co will come again and ask again and again and again then what 50 are 10,000, but they're still working? This is it.... if union members and non union members in an industry take concessions it effects everyone within that industry.
How about this Fedup:
"create a classless society of abundance and freedom, in which all people enjoy equal social and economic status."
You mean kind of like Russia was suppose to be?
That worked out great.Except for the power mad meglomaniacs corruption and the war they fought with those who thought democracy was important.
quote:
posted by Dougle:
I'm saying that the RW-DSU was a weak union. They were the Ones who negoiated the contracts for Peterbouro during those times. CAW has brought it up to where it is today. And this Isn't shy of what we make on paper. Don't forget that what is in their contract is what THEY VOTED for. Not what was determined for them.
Actually the contract I am looking at is between the company and the caw.The same one with lower wages for everyone and no bonus.
So your saying the employees had no say in the last contract or that we have no say in the current one coming?
The point of the contract comparisons is simple. At Maple Grove we are paid Toronto wages. This is the benefit of being tied into the Erin Mills contract. So yes Dougle you are correct, the dollar does go further in Peterborough. It also goes that much further in Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge. That is the point, we are the beneficiaries of higher UFCW wages. That is a fact.
I don't believe that layoffs are a good thing. Most workers are underpaid and can't afford to take the financial hardship of being laid off. It is not worth it for the workers at the bottom of the heap to accept such a burden. There has and will not be any layoffs in the warehouse division. Only job creation into the future.
Thanks
quote:
That is the point, we are the beneficiaries of higher UFCW wages.
Residual, ufcw preconcession residual... It mirrors retail in B.C. There are a few members left who have overlapped the ufcw past and the ufcw rollover. I wouldn't doubt we are penciled in the pre-nuptual agreement as "residual".
Check it out, you can pro'lly count on one hand how many workers are the "benficiaries" and you would still have enough fingers to count the good things ufcw has done for workers in the past couple decades.
Reebok have you read this? Correct me if I'm wrong but it is kinda telling. Doesn't it tell you ufcw members have been fed bunk? Doesn't it tell you everything members were told and believed about the economic landscape or "level playing field" etc., is ufcw partnership bunk? The difficult road now is to debunk all we think we know.
I will carry a copy of "One of Us" everywhere I go. If I hear one ufcw rep say to me "at the end of the day, retail isn't what it used to be".... neva'mind.
I'm sure it would work in warehousing too, they are "at the end of the day" all the same greedy employer.
quote:
I don't believe that layoffs are a good thing. Most workers are underpaid and can't afford to take the financial hardship of being laid off. It is not worth it for the workers at the bottom of the heap to accept such a burden. There has and will not be any layoffs in the warehouse division. Only job creation into the future.
Don't expect these workers will thank you eh. I'm not sure how thankful I'd be inheriting a dead end job, paying dues and no other choices because partnership deals littered the 'scape.
ufcw partnership agreements are famous for "saving" jobs. They've saved so many jobs they are now a dime a dozen. Low wage, no hours guarantee, no job security is called poverty.
Fedup ask Demon if he remembers the first meeting with the CAW. If he doesn't then ask some other CAW person that was there.
If I remember correctly I believe that the Peterbouro boyz got pay raises etc etc their last contract.
Reebok if it's a benifit to be tied to erinmills the how did peterbouro get the same approx, rates of pay per hour?
If we turn down the next contract we are in a sence on our own anyways yes? Except that we will have their support.
Do you think that the guys in Mississauga will give a rats ass if we vote no and negotiate our seperate contract and in that process go out on the street?
How much membership support from mississauga and pinebush will we get when they will not be able to transfer to our building anymore because the portibility thing only applies if we stay with Erinmills CA?
How can the UFCW effectively use strength in numbers when members fight members.
Ufcw 1000 A warehouse portability does not depend on contracts it is a bonus of being part og the bargining unit.Dougle you are such hypocrite to say any thing about the solidarity of our union when all you do is complain and try an isolate the maple grove warehouse by going caw. Oh we will have peterborough there tp help us until it closes let's see 4 warehouses with solidarty at my back or one warehouse which will close and someone like you who is only out for himself.I hope all the young and up and coming guys like the fact that they will get a unoin that will sacrifice workers for the higher wages of the few.
I will carry a copy of "One of Us" everywhere I go. If I hear one ufcw rep say to me "at the end of the day, retail isn't what it used to be".... neva'mind.
So siggy my question what happens if this turns out to be bunk spewed by some bitter person?
Will this make you feel so much safer and better like a child with a blanket?
You guys published an article here on how great the caw was when it raided the seiu maybe that is why you feel the need to defend them so much I mean you couldn't be wrong could you?
bb,
Please don't refer to my comments to Dougle as condescending. Here is something you simply have not come to understand yet. I will make it real simple for you. There are those at Maple Grove, including Dougle, who have such a hatred for the Company make comments to the effect that they would love to "take the Company down". I take them at their word because that is what they want, these are tough hombres we are talking about here. So, take the Company down and go get a non-union job at your fair market value. To quote something you siad bb, "that me be harsh" but so be it.
bb,
You say are you in favour of layoffs. I say that is greed talking. My opinion, this is a open forum, read the quotes posted on the websites front page.
Now let me say hello to my leetle friend, Dougle:
Dougle,
No offense brother but please leave the economics to those who know better.
Dougle,
The point you fail to see is that the Peterboro contract was negotiated FOUR (4) years AFTER the Erin Mills contract. If you think Peterboro is a cheap place to live maybe you should go up there and do a comparison. Go grocery shopping up there, buy a TV, a sofa, a car, a snowmobile, and tell me if there is a difference. Fact for Dougle, summer clothing such as beach wear, is actually more expensive in Peterboro, I know, I have seen it. Have you or are you just using your academic background to inform us of the cost of living situation. Also go up to Peterboro and pickup a newspaper and look for an apartment to rent. Tell me how you like the prices.
Dougle says:
"Do you think that the guys in Mississauga will give a rats ass if we vote no and negotiate our seperate contract and in that process go out on the street?"
Slic says:
As a Mississauga guy, YES I do give a rats ass. Any other question on that?
Dougle says:
"How much membership support from mississauga and pinebush will we get when they will not be able to transfer to our building anymore because the portibility thing only applies if we stay with Erinmills CA?" How can the UFCW effectively use strength in numbers when members fight members.
Slic says:
Dougle, once again you are being selfishness in your thoughts and narrow minded.
posted by Slic:
Dougle,
You are like an old wives tale. Worry worry worry. Why worry so much? Show some backbone, show some confidence.
condescending Slic, and repetetive
quote:
I will carry a copy of "One of Us" everywhere I go. If I hear one ufcw rep say to me "at the end of the day, retail isn't what it used to be".... neva'mind.
So siggy my question what happens if this turns out to be bunk spewed by some bitter person?
Will this make you feel so much safer and better like a child with a blanket?
quote:
You guys published an article here on how great the caw was when it raided the seiu maybe that is why you feel the need to defend them so much I mean you couldn't be wrong could you?
FU can you tell me what constitutes a "raid", in terms of union and in your own words? Who established the "no-raid" pact and why? I would also be interested to know how/why you think the "no-raid" pact between clc affiliates, benefits union members?
Slics untruthly said:
quote:
If you think Peterboro is a cheap place to live maybe you should go up there and do a comparison. Go grocery shopping up there, buy a TV, a sofa, a car, a snowmobile, and tell me if there is a difference. Fact for Dougle, summer clothing such as beach wear, is actually more expensive in Peterboro,
Well here's the turth to see for yourselves.
Peterborough Cars&trucks
Used Cars Toronto
Loblaws Flyers by City.
And of course Walmart.
Slic also asked:
quote:
Also go up to Peterboro and pickup a newspaper and look for an apartment to rent. Tell me how you like the prices.
Here it is.
Peterborough Examiner Classified Apt.
Slic says
quote:
As a Mississauga guy, YES I do give a rats ass. Any other question on that?
I'm glad to see that he can speak for ALL the membership in Mississauga. Typical UFCW mentality.
Slic You haven't answered my questions pertaining to the transfer rights that could be lost If MG decides to vote no. Since you claim that I'm narrow minded please broaden my views, with true fact please.
Slic says:
quote:
There are those at Maple Grove, including Dougle, who have such a hatred for the Company make comments to the effect that they would love to "take the Company down".
Once again Mr Slic is mistaken in his assumption that I wish to tear things down. I don't remember being in the demolishion bussiness. However since he brought it up I will take this opportunity to correct him once again.
I like working for LCE it has great advantages since it is part of the Weston Co. Which means, in part, for me and my family that we could have a job anywhere within the Weston " Umbrella ". The only thing that I don't like about LCE is the way they treat their employees.
They look to us as numbers and treat the human componant as irrelivant and if it gets in the way EAP! EAP!. I'm a number that produces numbers, that is at work for a number of hours and works by the number of pieces, and if my number ends up in column B instead of A I'm subjected to disipline no matter if the human componant has flaws. Persons hired FT even though they are only a touch over 5 foot and expected to pick from double high pick slots with standards running that is set for the average height of a person. Pick sticks you say? Try to find one and keep it.
So I don't wish the company any misfortune nor would I want to be apart of it, I would just like them to look at their labour like human beings.
The no raid and the CLC give unions a chance to reform themselves in the face of the competivtiviness in the labour union market the tories brought in.What has happened at maple grove constitues raiding in my opinion in that they have a few select employees high senority that have been promised things to their benefit to get the caw in.If everyone was honest and open and tried to give it the very best effort and then we as a group agreed that there was a need for change there instruments avaliable to us.When unions promise things that they can not for sure deliver on and there are lies and intimidation used on other employees as a means to gain a foot hold then that is raiding.A no raid pact also lends to union solidarity buzz and other labour leaders say they wish for the working men and women to stand up against the corporations but how can we stand up for ourselves when unions like the caw pit worker against worker?
Sorry if my comments get personal but I have seen alot of things in my life espicially in the way of bitterness by people who do not get what they want and turn on the organizations they were once a part of.
Hey Dougle I just went through the adds you listed for apartments you can llive in some of those place but they are not the nicest.I lived up there in both the nice areas and the bad areas and there was a very big difference some of the locations listed were in some nasty areas, places where you would not to have your kids hang out.
Fed Up, you seem like a smart guy, but I just don't understand your line of thinking. You keep bringing up the word Raid. How is the "CAW" raiding MG when it is the members that are trying to get them in. What is wrong with having a vote and letting the majority decide? UFCW may be your choice for MG, but does that mean it has to be everyone elses, just because the company has a voluntary rec clause with them? Let's have a vote, and let the majority decide which union is best for MG. Why are you so against that.
quote:
The no raid and the CLC give unions a chance to reform themselves in the face of the competivtiviness in the labour union market the tories brought in.
How so FU?
quote:
Sorry if my comments get personal but I have seen alot of things in my life espicially in the way of bitterness by people who do not get what they want and turn on the organizations they were once a part of.
Fu you do understand you are talking about an "organization" don't you? It is not human, has no feelings and doesn't bleed. On the other hand your co-workers do.
I think I can appreciate your loyalty a little, but I struggle with your effort to defend father bear no matter how many cubs he eats.
ufcw is an organization, a negotiating vehicle, a collective. At least that is what it is supposed to be, of late it resembles more of a trough (along with many others btw).
What is so scary about workers choosing, forming a different, less rickety, or top of the line vehicle to get where we're going?
Nope I'm not advocating caw, I'm advocating members take control of their future, however it works out, I agree with ODPP, shop around, make choices, it's our right.
I have no problem with the idea of union compitition.But I have a problem with dirty tricks intimidation name calling.I have always said if we had all worked together to for our beneft and it had failed then I would not oppose switching unions.I have suggested to some people from kitchener ways to over come an inequities they feel I have even volunteered to help in any way I can, even now I have suggested ideas to the union to make our work place more agreeable for everyone, but what I get from guys after I have done this is that is not enough, we want more.
But when people come through the door with the idea of changing the way things are before we have a chance to make the system we have in place work or at least improve it I have a problem.
We have the chance for a new contract to be negiotated and then there are some proposals for improvements to the way things are handled grievence wise.This contract coming and the way it is administered will go along way in making the decision for alot people clearer espicially the younger employees who will be the one who will have to follow our footsteps.
My question is why were people afraid to give the union we a have now a chance?
quote:
posted by Fed Up:
My question is why were people afraid to give the union we a have now a chance?
I honestly did give them a chance. I received a nice raise comming to MG, and had no reason to support a union change. Over the last 2 years, I've seen alot of questionable things to change my opinion. Good workers being disciplined without good cause. Managment doing whatever they please and not following the CA. Grievences that are not dealt with. Part-time missing full-time opportunity because they did not meet that 3 point criteria. The list goes on and on, all the way down to seeing the way Brian Reid shakes hands with managment and engages in big white tooth smile and laugh chit chats, looking like they are Hockey Night in Canada beer drinking buddies.
It's been 2 years and there has not been any change. Perhaps we need a union change? If I thought we would lose wages and benifits, my opinion could be different. But I dont believe we will. We have the money going for us now, but I just don't see any union support when we need it.
i have two questions- your not open to see what happens under the contract with the new proposals to handle grievences?
could the fact that some have been disciplined without help by the union have something to do with the stewards we have had?
I was disciplined for something that there was no justification for and both stewards sat by and did aboustly nothing not even asking me for my side if they had done their job it would have been a different story.
May I ask what is wrong with the 3 point system for full time, I went through so do alot of people I got full time with.
As far as wages go right away probably no loss but we will be in a weakened bargining position in a few years with the opening of Ajax if we are the only caw warehouse.
May I ask okie what did you think of the ufcw getting loblaws to put 400,000 dollars into the pension for the former kitchener employees that works out to what about roughly $3000 per person?
You make some good points Fed Up. Waiting to see what the new contract brings is tempting, but is it worth losing our opportunity for a union change, which is obviously what alot of us think we need. As for the stewards, yes I agree we have some weak representation, on both sides of the fence. That is something we need to work on no matter what union we have. We need to elect the right people for the job. Perhaps you could be one of them? The 3 point critera system is all around unfair to the part-timers. The company doesn't need it to avoid hiring bad employees. They can still get rid of them while they are on probation. I've seen part-time lose out on full-time because he missed too many days due to family issues and needing to be home with his children. He didn't meet the 3 point critera.
And what do I think about what the UFCW getting the Kitchener guys $400,000 for their pension? I think It's great. I'm not saying the UFCW is all bad. I just don't think they are the best union for MG, which is what this is all about.
Actually okie there will be another open period next year.
As far as being a steward on my shift we have 2 already but if there is ever anyway I can help you I will.
If someone lost out on full time due family emergencies and used emergency leave and that is the reason for his not getting full time I can ask for someone to check into that, employees should never be punished for caring for their famalies, in the future as loblaws grows and consolodates their operations as far the warehouses go I believe issues such as daycare should put on the table, I would be interested to see if anyone has done that yet.
As far as what looks like the buddy buddy relationship between management and union I think there are 2 reasons for this for someone like Brian Reid he has been around for about 25-30 years so now in management are guys he worked on the floor with, second diplomacy seems to have worked for us all, but I will agree we have to be careful to never let ourselves be lulled into a state where we become total slaves.
A&P improvements NOW
OLD
GW $21.71
Reciever $22.04
Drivers $21.96
PT Start 13.36 + $.50 every six months to 30 months @ $15.85
Persons working friday midnight - sat midnight .25/h
persons working Sat midnight - sun midnight .60/h
Persons working Sat AND Sun get $3.00 per hour.
.65 /h between 7pm- 7am. If your shift starts between 3am and 7am and runs after you will be paid .65/h for the hour worked between those times
.60/h for working in the freezer.
.50/h leadhand
Number of employees at each DC that may work a full weekend shift consisting of both Sat and Sun shall not exceed
%20 for grocery
%30 for produce
%15 for frozen
%35 for GA
1 sick day every three months max of 4 per year. $160 boot allowance over 2 years must provide reciept balance can be used later.
Modified work program. Co can only move employee for rehabilitive purposes.
Part-time $15.85?
$3/hr weekend premium?
Working Sat & Sun shall not exceed 15 to 35%?
160 over 2 year boot allowance?
Sick days???
Dare I ask? Does UFCW still have the best contract in the industry?
Good if the bar has been set higher for us to get more.
so 75% of weekend employees will be part rime and how about during the week?
how many full time jobs are there and how long is the wait to get full time?
Dougle wrote, in part:
A & P Improvements NOW
/\/\/\/\/\/\
GW $21.71
Reciever $22.04
Drivers $21.96
PT Start 13.36 + $.50 every six months to 30 months @ $15.85
Number of employees at each DC that may work a full weekend shift consisting of both Sat and Sun shall not exceed
%20 for grocery
%30 for produce
%15 for frozen
%35 for GA
1 sick day every three months max of 4 per year. $160 boot allowance over 2 years must provide reciept balance can be used later.
Modified work program. Co can only move employee for rehabilitive purposes.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
-------------------------------------------
Unlike all of you CAW dudes out here who are united in your hate, I will not sling away at the hilites of the CA Dougle posted. I can however make comments and ask questions.
1. Where is the $5.00 per hour more on average that the CAW guys have (talked)(lied) about?
2. Afternoon, Night, and Freezer Premiums are old news to the UFCW.
3. Why the $0.50 "to 30 months" for part-timers? CAW has been (telling)(lying to) young impressionable part-time employees that they will make them full-time instantly.
4. Four (4) sick days maximum per year. I would have thought that the way CAW has been lying, I mean talking, ok so that is the same thing for them, but anyway, that they would have DEMANDED that A & P give up 12 sick days.
5. In discussing the percentages of employees on weekend shifts, the weekend shifts were not really an issue back in 1998 when the current CA was negotiated. Example, there was no Saturday afternoon or night shifts, no Sunday day shifts. There are now and of course it will be addressed.
6. Modified work program. This is good for everyone of course, and a huge improvement over what the CAW has in the A & P Burlington CA, which is the opposite of what is stated above. I just hope that when we have a similar or improved Modified Work Program language that the Captain of the Sinking Love Boat doesn't ruin it for everyone.
------------------------------------
okiedokieandonehandstrokie wrote:
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Part-time $15.85?
$3/hr weekend premium?
Working Sat & Sun shall not exceed 15 to 35%?
160 over 2 year boot allowance?
Sick days???
Dare I ask? Does UFCW still have the best contract in the industry?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
1. Again, wy the $0.50 "to 30 months" for part-timers? CAW has been (telling)(lying to) young impressionable part-time employees that they will make them full-time instantly.
2. Weekend premiums have BECOME relevant in last few years and as such Unions are addressing the issue, it's not rocket science.
3. Have you done the math and figured out what percentage of full-time employees work BOTH Saturday and Sunday at Maple Grove? I didn't think so.
4. Boot allowance. That is $80 per year so the UFCW would have to negotiate a $30 increase to improve on that. Not exactly worrisome.
5. Sick days ... so they didn't have any and they negotiated four (4) per year to get "foot in door". How come when the UFCW communicated that exact same idea, the "united-in-hate haters" had a fit.
Okie-one-canokie,
If that is the best in the industry and if that is all that it takes to keep you happy, I applaud you. You are easy to please, come on over, I will break open the Lakeports for you while I drink the premium Heineken.
To conclude, I want to introduce a new feature, the LOST and FOUND Section.
MISSING: The training credentials of the Captain of the Love Boat.
REWARD: $1,000 (one-thousand)
So the ufcw sold out the Loblaws employees "RCSS", and CAW negotiated a better contract "A&P", umm the argument for ufcw is what? 
What are the A&P store employees getting?
You know I have to hope that the caw does not do the samething in the grocery industry that they did in the auto industry where they pushed the big 3 to look to other places for manufacturing and labour.
Fed Up, is it your opinion that as long as the union keeps everyone working, even if that means minimum wage and no benifits, then the union has done it's job ? Because that seems to be where all your arguments lead to.
Are we getting minimum wage and no benfits?
Hey if companies decide to go that way one day who is to stop them, there will always be people willing to work for whatever and what is the problem with min. wage if everyone makes the same then prices have to come down so product can be bought and profits made.But that won't happen because then companies will offer incentives such as more money to attract better people.
Why are basic fiscal laws so difficult for some to understand people want to make more money so companies have to charge more money which cost consumers (us)more money so we ask for more and the company shareholders want more the consumer wants more anyone else see where this is going?
quote:
Are we getting minimum wage and no benfits?
Hey if companies decide to go that way one day who is to stop them, there will always be people willing to work for whatever and what is the problem with min. wage if everyone makes the same then prices have to come down so product can be bought and profits made.But that won't happen because then companies will offer incentives such as more money to attract better people.
Why are basic fiscal laws so difficult for some to understand people want to make more money so companies have to charge more money which cost consumers (us)more money so we ask for more and the company shareholders want more the consumer wants more anyone else see where this is going?
Then why do we need a union?
pric,
You guys are the ones constantly saying you have the best contract in the industry. Even printing out a little propaganda card with the comparison between our contract and Peterborough's, pointing out the whopping 80 cents more an hour that we make. Don't have a crying fit because the CAW just negotiated a stronger contract than ours.
Maybe before you put that $1000 up for grabs you may want to ask why the UFCW went knocking on his door to be on the Health and saftey Com, I don't remember voting him into that Com. Double it and I'll get it for ya He and I will split it, and take you out for a beer (Lake Port).
Sorry my Mistake.
Articale XXI - Part time employees
21.01 The Union reconizes that the Co will continue to require the use of part-time from time to tim. In accordance with this understanding the Co agrees the Part-time employees shall not be used to the extent that they displace employees within the bargaining unit and shall not be used to prevent the hiring of FT employee's.
21.03 PT employees ( persons regularly employeed for not more than 28 hours per week) May, during the peroid may 1st to Sept 15th and durring the weeks of good friday thanksgiving Christmas newyaers and durring Dec1st - Jan 15th may be regularly employed in excess of 28 hours per week for thepurpose of vacation relief.
This is how CAW gets PT FT. By restricting the amount of hours that the Co is allowed to give PT. See with the UFCW PT work in the excess of 28 hours per week. So If a PT is able to work a 40 hour work week then the Co doesn't need to hire them FT untill they see fit. This could also be the explaination as to why the CAW doesn't reconize PT in some of their agreement.... It's because PT don't exsist or are used only when nessary.
So my mistake about the PT wages they are FT wages. You would start at $13.35 and .50 every six months to $15.85 then upon completion of your 36th month ( 3rd year ) you will get the end rate as per your classification in which their are 13 kinds Rates from $21.71 to $22.41.
Mr Slic:
Sling away, I hold no grudges, I'm curious as to what you think.
The $5 may not be there but a difference of almost $3 is. They also don't pay for benifts which is a savings of close to $1000 a year and they make almost $5000 more a year because of the premimums.
Sick days at least they have them, Hell UFCW 175 has just got them for Sobeys milton. The reason why us "united-in-hate haters" ( I like that ) Don't believe the UFCW's promises of 3 sick days is because the Co just instituted a strict attendance policy that only allows 4 missed days a year then 1 every three months after that, along with the treat of termination vailed by " It's non disiplinary thou and you'll get the personal crisis days" which they don't take into concideration untill your half way through the program. If we do get them We'll have to give somethings up in order to get them. Christmas bonus maybe?
quote:
There are now and of course it will be addressed.
If I could when you bring that up at the Union meetings with the FT union staff could you please give the CAW the credit for the ideas.
In closing, If Heineken is concidered the premium then I'd rather drink Lake Port.
quote:
Why are basic fiscal laws so difficult for some to understand people want to make more money so companies have to charge more money which cost consumers (us)more money so we ask for more and the company shareholders want more the consumer wants more anyone else see where this is going?
The Loblaw employees never asked for more.
Loblaws is making record profits.
The beneficiaries of the RCSS deal are the company and the union period.
NG is committed to cutting two million dollars from transport costs this year, I have no knowledge of the warehouse but if the company cant make their projections I am confident 1000a will help them out too. 
quote:
posted by NIGHTS:
[QUOTE]
NG is committed to cutting two million dollars from transport costs this year, I have no knowledge of the warehouse but if the company cant make their projections I am confident 1000a will help them out too.
NIGHTS its still daytime go back to sleep and really put some good thought into what you write.
geeesh
quote:
NIGHTS its still daytime go back to sleep and really put some good thought into what you write.
What dont you understand PBS.
Why do you think 1000a would help out to save money?
quote:
Why do you think 1000a would help out to save money?
I don't think, it is what the ufcw does. 
Time to open your eyes and take off the rose colored glasses.
quote:
The Loblaw employees never asked for more.
Loblaws is making record profits.
The beneficiaries of the RCSS deal are the company and the union period.
If you are not familiar with the RCSS deal read this
And do not think for one second the dealing is done. What about No frills RCSS, YIG RCSS and any other phantom banner an imaginative businessman can conjure in a crystal ball.
Hell they could have RCSS RCSSses
The big threat of Walmart can be replaced by any competitor, European or English or any "threat" under the sun.
Hey Loblaws need to keep stuff cheap with all thew bombadier, ford and air canda people about to lose jobs, so back off.
Touchy Touchy. Is it starting to sink in FU. Has the self proclaimed King of contract negotiations (UFCW) been dethroned? Have you finally come to the conclusion that the UFCW RCSS deal is actually bad and it was used to save the Co millions? Has RV's "One of us" made you see the light?
Hey I have no doubt the RCSS contract was all about saving the company money but I as I have said before if the company is bringing 10,000,000 but owes the same they have to put money away for future problems that arise also when the company does well the employees have been payed well and still are with the exceptions of the new hires in the retail level hopefully these will be rectified with the new retail contracts.
So you think that LCE retail is breaking even? Not a bloody chance.
About A&P
quote:
Good if the bar has been set higher for us to get more.
About RCSS
quote:
Hey I have no doubt the RCSS contract was all about saving the company money
So what else do you need?
Do you want a union that saves a Co money that already makes hundreds of millions and is in part, part of a Co that makes Billions?
Why are you just willing to settle for the statis quoe when you clearly have some fight in you?
Why not use that for the betterment of the labor movement instead of defending and trying to reform a union that doesn't want to reform and commits "criminal acts" against the labor movement.
Hey slic would you please give dougle any text books you have left from your days of studying business I think anything in fiscal responsibility, basic accounting and something to do with basic addition and subtraction.
Dougle wrote:
-----------------------------------------------
"Have you finally come to the conclusion that the UFCW RCSS deal is actually bad and it was used to save the Co millions?"
---------------------
Dougle,
Let us ASSUME you are 100% correct. Now, tell us your view of the Air Canada negotiations that have already taken place. You either tell us the exact same thing you said about the RCSS deal or expose once again that you are a hypocrite on this particular issue at this particular time.
Well we wait for your response. I find it interesting that each time you and "DeMoN" and girlfriend "Pasty" and "Twin" and "The Quitter" have been painted into a corner by moi, The Artist, you have not responded well under the pressure, contrary to "bb"s theory on people under pressure. In fact you have avoided answering. You have all on each and every such occasion refused to reply with the only answer out there. It is like the troubled elementary school kid who knows his answer to the 2 + 2 problem is incorrect, realizes it is 4 but refuses to say so when repeatedly asked by the teacher.
I hear a certain CAW lie and deny organizer in Perishable has for the umpeenth time gone to management in an attempt to rat out a fellow member. When you are in his vicinity watch your cheese.
It seems to me all the CAW wannabes have one thing in common. They are constantly ratting out members. I have never seen such a cozy relationhip with management as these have and can you imagine the love-in they had in Kitchener?
The only people who would benefit from the CAW as their union in MG is the Tier I guys from Kitchener. The Tier II Kitchener guys were screwed by the Tier I there and surely would again. The London and Chatham guys would also be screwed and hopefully deep down when they are away from the workplace they realize it.
I have found it extremely interesting that former Tier II Kitchener employees are of a completely different mindset when it comes to the CAW when they are discussing the issues alone without any former Tier I employees nearby.
okiedokie wrote:
------------------------------------------------
You guys are the ones constantly saying you have the best contract in the industry. Even printing out a little propaganda card with the comparison between our contract and Peterborough's, pointing out the whopping 80 cents more an hour that we make. Don't have a crying fit because the CAW just negotiated a stronger contract than ours.
----------------------------------------
No one is crying, well except for some CAW organizers who are ratting out fellow employees constantly. That is not an accusation it is fact, and on the record.
You are welcome to donate your extra $0.80 to a charity of my choice if you like. Otherwise the issue is closed.
If you read what I wrote I acknowledged the contract and simply asked some questions and made relevant comments. You answered none by the way.
Also, on the issue of boot allowance, the UFCW negtotiation $90 per year for the Erin Mills drives last summer, that is $180 over two (2) years which is more than $160, correct?
And again also, the Erin Mills CA was negotiated in 1998. The Peterboro CA was negotiated in 2002. Why, four (4) years later, could the CAW not improve on the Erin Mills deal out there in Peterboro?
As for the cost of living arguement that fell quickly.
To quote the late Notorious B.I.G. -
If you don't know
Now you know
Hey slic, Demon wants to know if your a racist he said you made a racist remark about a caw organizer Mann something or other.
I would like to also ask Demon at this time why I hear fellow employees referring to day one guys as day day one f*cks now, where did they get that from I wonder?
Also why all of the sudden you so agitated by the company failing to dictate senority the way you see fit for it, you did not have that complaint when you screwed me the first time and you didn't have it when i came back to noons and the company ignored my senority for a few months.You are a hypocrite and for the record I told mangement i would even train my replacement as I do believe in playing by the rules too bad you don't unless it serves your purpose.
Have a nice day
quote:
What about No frills RCSS, YIG RCSS
bb you forgot to mention The Real Canadian National Grocers
So are saying that if Loblaws decides to do the same to us that the caw will save us?
Let's ask people from bombadier, aircanada and as of late ford what the caw did to help keep it's members off the unemployment line and I mean all it's members not the few high senior ones that is if it could do anything at all.
In response Slic, for the second time the difference between Air Canada and Loblaws is the "BANKRUPTCY PROTECTION", please do not ask again.
Mr Li (potential investor for Air Canada) has already gotten wage concessions and now wants to convert all the existing pensions to a defined benefit plan. The Union is holding firm and saying no... the defined contribution benefit plan will not be conceded.
If the deal is not settled by April 30 the assets of Air Canada may be sold.
I dont think any of Loblaws assets is under any danger of being sold by a Receiver.
And let's hope it stays that way, one of the best ways is responsible mangement of company assets by all involved, and everyone being interested in the common good isted of the interest of the few wether they be corporate, union or the senior people employeed by loblaws.
Slic,
Air Canada was operatiing with a dept in the 12.9 billion, had extream losses in profits, filed for court protection to avoid bankruptcy, 911, buy out of Canadian airlines. Also it wasn't just the CAW that was involved there was the Air Canada Pilots Association, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, Canadian Union of Public Employees.
quote:
Not least among the reasons the war pretext is dishonest is that the airline was in a difficult financial position long before the crisis over Iraq, and long before September 11, 2001, for that matter. Air Canada carries more than $12 billion in debt, and reported a loss of $428 million in 2002, down from a loss of $1.3 billion in 2001. The airline faces stiff competition from non-unionized local carrier WestJet, and its share of the country's shrinking air travel market has fallen from 80 percent in 2000 to 55 percent today.
LCE and UFCW's facts for closing their deal was the POSSIABLE threat of Walmart, Compitation. LCE was protecting their market share and proifts from the POSSIABLE threat that hasn't really materialised yet, LCE has just about finished almaginating all their banners under the LCE umbrella, Acounting, payrole, HR, etc, etc. As well as saving the Co millions by allowing them to use the existing banners to avoid having to setup another Co and having to set up all new dept. Even if Walmart is comming the POSSIABILITY of them taking on Loblaws is remote. It would be a more viable option to take out the little guy as seems to be Walmarts M.O. Where as the threat of air canada closing is more of a REALITY .
Air Canada's Executive and management also took pay cuts LCE's didn't
quote:
Another $100-million in savings will come from management layoffs and pay cuts, Mr. Rovinescu said. Air Canada said it will lay off about 20 per cent of its non-union staff. Executive salaries will be cut by 15 per cent, while managers and administrators face a 10-per-cent pay cut.
Also the CAW will be able to negotiate pay increases.
quote:
The contract lasts for six years, but the CAW will have an opportunity to negotiate pay increases -- subject to binding arbitration -- after three years.
To me it is accept able to help a Co IF they are actually in financial difficulty. LCE is not. LCE and UFCW chose to give us the sole financial burden of their actions. LCE didn't want to dip into their own pocket, they are protecting their share holders nor did they look at other cost saving Ideas. It's been my understanding that with the CAW, if we accept a %3 increase then they would get a %3 increase raise in salary, and the same if we took a decrease. Does the UFCW have the same policy? Are they willing to take a decrese in pay for this attrosity called the RCSS? 
Who does a share holder make his money? Does LCE pay the Difference in cost of the share? IE share = $5 when bought had an annual increase of $2. Does LCE pay them the $2 annual difference or what?
Air Canada VS RCSS or Bankruptcy VS Profit or Facts VS Fiction take your pick.
quote:
have been painted into a corner by moi, The Artist, you have not responded well under the pressure,
I don't think so. go back and read. I've answered your questions and all that I've got nothing in return but a few off comments about something unrealated or irrelvant. The CAW doesn't need to run a smear campain, tell other people half truths about situations or possiable situations that the CAW could be apart of. The UFCW's inactions and actions in the last couple of years speaks volumes.
You also have misinterpeted my arguement about Peterboro VS UFCW. It is true that Cambridge and Peterboro are simular in the cost of living , but MY point and arguement was that UFCW negotiated their exsisting contract IN MISSISSAUGA before they had built Cambridge.
Wages UFCW negotiated in/for MISSISSAUGA VS Wages CAW negoatiated in/for Peterboro . IF UFCW negotated solely in Cambridge and got the same as Mississauga then I would have to say that UFCW's is better. Nice twist though.
Why no real comments on the A&P? Why going back to your twisted verson of Peterboro?
I would also like to put out there and remind my day 2 friends that there are day ones that support the CAW myself is include in that list. Remember that you'll require the day ones support after this is all said and done. Don't burn bridges, you may have to use them again and it's hard to rebuild them.
Artical 1
Artical 2
Artical 3
Artical 4
Artical 5
I will respond to "bb" and "Dougle".
"bb" wrote:
"Mr Li (potential investor for Air Canada) has already gotten wage concessions and now wants to convert all the existing pensions to a defined benefit plan. The Union is holding firm and saying no... the defined contribution benefit plan will not be conceded."
"bb", Mr. Li is very shrewd. Basil already conceded plenty including jobs, now Mr. Li is going after more knowing he can get it. Basil already broke down, he is not in a position to take a tough stance now. Just watch and see what happens when this is said and done.
"Dougle" wrote and this is a direct quote:
"Who does a share holder make his money? Does LCE pay the Difference in cost of the share? IE share = $5 when bought had an annual increase of $2. Does LCE pay them the $2 annual difference or what?"
What in God's green earth are you saying there brother. Please read it, rewrite it and ask again. Please ask again, but this time have it make some sense, is that too much to ask. Ok ok let's go to that happy place. I don't want to have you crying again over some comments I made or may make. High maintenance posters here.
First why do I sense the presence of an evil one?
Okay Dougle and anyone else that seems to have a problem with the idea that the company has overhead here would be just a sample of the lists of cost Loblaws would incur
Labour
Transportation
Advertising
Research and Development
Building and Maintenance
Legal
General Building Overhead for every building they own ie electricsl and water, which are subject to the rise and fall of oil water and hydo
Training
New equipment computers jiggers uniforms etc...
Taxes
Loans
And they do have an accountability to their investors some of whom are employed by the company
Product Costs
Product Losses ie damages and theft.
The lists can go on and on because I sure there are a few i have missed.
Now in the end the only one they can really control are labour costs.
Now if they sacrifice the shareholders and decrease profits or take losses it devalues their stock causing sell offs when this happen they can lose control of the company so they must remain fiscally healthy so we get paid what they feel they can afford.They do pay according to costs in areas but they do that based on provincial costs ask anyone who worked for the company in more than one province.
Dougle:
A&P and L.C.E are 2 different Companies...
couple years from now there will not be anymore A&P's
-----MY PREDICTION-----------------------------
Stop listening to DeMoN
he has too much of Basil's DNA in his A#S
quote:
couple years from now there will not be anymore A&P's
Interesting, A&P have been hiring overwaitiea foods (jimmy pattison's B.C. retail chain) union busting crew at near breakneck speed.
Just after the concessionary '97 ufcw agreement with overwaitea, the company prez, brian piwek was hired by a&p. The ink wasn't even dry on that contract and he was gone.
From what I know brian work'd in the toronto office until being fast track'd to the american side of a&p.
Shortly thereafter, a&P also took another overwaitea heavy by the name of jerry kenyon, who is now working in toronto.
Fascinating, breaking a union contract is instant market stardom. Wonder what a&p sees in them?
Walmart is bringing grocery to Canada......
L.C.E is using the concept of "The Great Canadian Superstore" to compete with them....
Again if you actually read what I put "administrator God" then you will know its my predicition
How does a share holder make money without selling his shares?
Who's crying? Not Moi.
FU. If a Co posts a profit isn't that the over and above the costs that you've listed? Including loan payments? Also haven;t you heard about the "Race to The Bottom" Low pay and high productivity? Any Co will want to pay the lowest that they can.
OH NO NOT WALMART!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!
Walmart is coming wooooooooo
Watch out lower market grocery outlets like
ummmmmm maybe
A&P
quote:
posted by Dougle:
How does a share holder make money without selling his shares?
He will make money through dividends and if he is smart he will have the stock as part of his RRSP so he may use it as a tax write off but in doing that if the stock becomes a lower value then what he invested he loses money as he starts to sell off his shares.
[LIST]
FU. If a Co posts a profit isn't that the over and above the costs that you've listed? Including loan payments? Also haven;t you heard about the "Race to The Bottom" Low pay and high productivity? Any Co will want to pay the lowest that they can.
Profits are based on the record for the past quarter but when bargining and planning everyone looks ahead so that there is enough money in the bank so all can be paid.If air canada had put money away for future problems back when they were making huge profits they may be in better shape, but the thinking there was they would always have the government and our tax dollars to bail them out.A company must always be ready for variables such an ncrease in interest rates and if wal mart gets in the grocerey business in ontario then the cost of meat and produce will go up for the retailors but they can only pass on so much of that cost to the consumer.So yea wal mart is coming
OH NO NOT WALMART!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!! THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!
Just a couple of words to the wise here:
Those of you who think that the company needs to "save money for a rainy day" or that if Loblaws makes $10 million dollars but has $10 million woth of debt then it's not a profitable business or that shareholders do not "make money" until they cash in their shares - are all totally wrong.
I don't hold myself out as an expert in business or finance but I do know the basics (which you ought to know as well - so you don't get snowed). Honestly, who has been filling your heads full of this happy crap?!
Companies do not "save money for a rainy day". Any CEO who suggested that capital (money) - which could otherwise be used to maximize profit - be set aside "for a rainy day" would be laughed right out of his or her job.
Companies like Loblaws are not just breaking even. The analogy of making $10 million in profit and owing $10 million does not apply to Loblaws and hasn't since as far back as I can recall. Fed Up et al, when a company reports its "profit it" is talking about:
quote:
Gross sales minus taxes, interest, depreciation, and other expenses - also called net earnings or net income or bottom line.
So when Loblaw Companies reports a net profit of $294 million for the fourth quarter of 2004 that means that after accounting for all of its expenses, including the costs associated with servicing its debt, the company still had $294 million left over.
Shares owned in a company are considered "equity" and so have a value even before they are liquidated. Why do you think stock options are such an attractive component of executive compensation?
So maybe if aircanada had put money away for a rainy maybe they would be in better shape now, anyways they have 294,000,000 but what are the costs for all the building they are doing which will means more jobs in retail warehousing constuction advertising and other spillover jobs.
Maybe RV you can try some happy crap then even though we live in a waorld where a lot bad stuff happens you still get to smile and enjoy life.
The costs of all the building they're doing are accounted for as "expenses" so the $294 mil is what's left over after all that stuff is taken into account.
The only objective of a for-profit enterprise is to maximize profit. This will continue to be the case until a combination of government intervention and public pressure gives these enterprises responsibilities that go beyond making the biggest pile they can no matter what the impact on people and the environment.
If you'd like to see corporations act more responsibly (such as in putting away money for a rainy day), I suggest that you (1) educate yourself about how business operates, and (2) lose your "I don't give a rat's ass" mindset towards issues that you don't believe impact on you directly (but which, in fact, do), (3) begin to actively promote these ideas instead of crapping on people that do.
Wow your getting bitterer by the minute on here it is funny yet kind of sad, I hope you find it is that will make you happy without tearing down others. 
Here are some things to read and think over
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
Bertrand Russell
All movements go too far.
Bertrand Russell
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
Bertrand Russell
Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise.
Bertrand Russell
I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine.
Bertrand Russell
- More quotations on: [Opinions]
I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.
Bertrand Russell
- More quotations on: [Belief]
If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence.
Bertrand Russell
If there were in the world today any large number of people who desired their own happiness more than they desired the unhappiness of others, we could have paradise in a few years.
Bertrand Russell
- More quotations on: [Happiness]
In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.
Bertrand Russell
In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying.
Bertrand Russell
"Bitterer" is not a word. What you mean to say is "you are getting increasingly bitter". If you are a man of letters - as you let on - , you ought to know that.
I am not bitter by the way. I find it really interesting engaging you in discussion - such as it is. I consider you a spokesperson for Local 1000a and so what you say - in this and in the other threads - is of much interest to me and our other guests too I'm sure.
Bitterness has nothing to do with my earlier comments to you about the financial aspects of business. I was simply explaining something to you. The fact that I may be saying things that you were hoping not to hear does not make me bitter. You are engaging in a cheap diversionary ploy.
Do you disagree with what I said about the financial aspects of business? If you disagree, say so and state your case. If you don't disagree, don't try creating diversions by disparaging me.
No I have no problem with debate, and I do not dispute the facts about the for profit companies way of doing business but in light of what has happened with air canada wise business people would make sure they are going to be financially secure.
I am sorry but you do seem very bitter and angry at times, like you have something to prove.
Was the reference to me and letters another crack about my spelling
Me the ufcw1000a spokesman hmmm nope but I did apply to be in the velvet glove
Me disperage anyone I hope not.
As far as my place of work the ufcw has more to offer than the caw or any other union could, maybe in the future that may change but in the here and now the ufcw is it.
Please debate the difference between Loblaws and Air Canada then. IMO Air Canada needs concessions, not only from workers but from creditors and again the government.
How can Loblaws possibly compare? They should be granting concessions to their loyal employees, shouldnt they Fed Up?
If, and I say if, the caw grants concessions to an employer in recievership in order to preserve jobs there is a difference between them and the UFCW who grants concessions in face of very healthy profits because a competitor MIGHT enter the marketplace.
On top of the possible threat a payment of $3,000,000 to the UFCW if they do not allow a vote by the general membership.
Or the Westons could say the hell with it all and decide to close up shop and turn the buildings into rental property.
Again the caw went behind closed doors and did a deal now either it is wrong or it is right.
If it is wrong for the ufcw then it is wrong for the caw.
In both cases members were upset.
One huge difference Fed Up, the member ratification vote.
If the deal is okayed by those affected by the deal, can the members say it was behind closed doors?
It is one thing to negotiate a deal, all contract negotiations are done in private, it is quite another not to allow a vote and thereby FORCE the negotiators deal onto the members.
No Buzz promised Onex the cutbacks they wanted while they were in the process of bidding for air canada.
The members did not vote on it there was nothing to vote on.
Ohhhhhh come on now Fed Up. What is with you always sympathizing with the company and it's apparent financial trouble you seem to think it's in. The company needs to save money. They have so many expenses. The company may decide to shut us down and make rental properties. Come on, Loblaws is loaded and making huge profits. God forbid you ever get a place on the negotiating committee. We will all be making minimum wage.
Actually the problem I have with people who constantly harp on the fact that companies make money and therefore we should get more and more could come back to bite us in the ass.We get a pretty decent wage now and cola increases every year at top rate, but if we want our wages tied into how well the company does what happens when the company loses money?
A better question is what happens to wages if the company does well? They can still go downward as in the RCSS deal? Fed Up Your responses are inadequate.
Rest assured if a Company is doing poorly the wages will be sacrificed. Hopefully with a ratification vote.
Several questions have been asked of you and you have not responded. Do you have an explanation?
What is your motive here? Why do you support the UFCW blindly? What is your opinion of the Doug Dority grovel? Why is the UFCW better than the CAW, What would you have done faced with Kevin Corporons decision last summer?
I might remind you that Maplegrove voters are watching, your responses can swing people to your side.... if they are compelling responses.
I have already answered all the above questions at some point or other.
As far as anyone from maple grove goes if they have talked to me they know where I stand and why I do so.
For all of you asking the UFCW puppets here questions, please feel free to copy and paste the following Reply to the end of your question.
Becaus the ufcw ist he best onion.
This will enable you to receive an immidiate response and allow you to go on with more important matters.
"bb",
Comment on that which you know about, but why are you putting in two cents on that which you know nothing about.
Trying to influence people with Doug Dority talk is pathetic on your part.
Slinging at leaders of the CAW and UFCW can be done I am sure by both sides back and forth as is the nature of people. But stick to the issues at Maple Grove, the warehouse division overall and what is best for those workers and THEIR future.
You have admitted you know very little about the issue at hand so why are you throwing out your garbage here. I heard from one of YOUR fellow workers that one of your problems is that you have no presence, no ability to talk to people face to face. Is it true I don't know.
However my offer stands, what store do you work at I will contact you and answer some of your questions, facts only opinions omitted.
And please spare us the drama of "watch your replies people are watching votes may swing". That is not your place brother.
If you knew what the CAW supporters have done there you would be appalled if you are even remotely a man of sense.
posted by Slic:
"bb",
quote:
Comment on that which you know about, but why are you putting in two cents on that which you know nothing about.
Thanks for the advice dad , but this is an open forum, I feel comfortable offering my thoughts
quote:
Trying to influence people with Doug Dority talk is pathetic on your part.
Actually it is pathetic to grovel, you sound offended, do you know him?
quote:
Slinging at leaders of the CAW and UFCW can be done I am sure by both sides back and forth as is the nature of people. But stick to the issues at Maple Grove, the warehouse division overall and what is best for those workers and THEIR future.
I have not slung any arrows at any individuals, but I am very disappointed by some leaders actions, like not allowing a vote, recieving boatloads of money and not having meetings...quite disheartening actually
quote:
You have admitted you know very little about the issue at hand so why are you throwing out your garbage here. I heard from one of YOUR fellow workers that one of your problems is that you have no presence, no ability to talk to people face to face. Is it true I don't know.
I know very little about MG, aside from what I have read here, a lot of which I do not believe. On the same note, How much do you know about me? Why am I an issue to you? I dont believe I have an issue talking to people, but I guess you would have to talk to someone who actually spoke to me. If you could explain what you mean about presence I might be able to answer
quote:
However my offer stands, what store do you work at I will contact you and answer some of your questions, facts only opinions omitted.
I do not have any questions, You might ask the coworker which store I work in though or look in my profile????
quote:
And please spare us the drama of "watch your replies people are watching votes may swing". That is not your place brother.
If you knew what the CAW supporters have done there you would be appalled if you are even remotely a man of sense.
When you refer to MG as "there" does that mean it is not you place of work? , or just that you are not at work right now? BTW those CAW supporters are dues paying members of the UFCW...brother.
quote:
posted by NIGHTS:
Becaus the ufcw ist he best onion.
What always works for me is to type out what I want to put down here on a e-mail and then I click on "Spell Check".
Sometimes I read what I type before submit it so I dont make myself look like a drugged out uneducated person.
Just trying to help you out
Whoa Pinebushes_Scotty, your blowing my mind and freaking me out man, the way you can tell so much about a person after reading one post on the internet, Man your just like Kreskin !
I assume you drew this/your conclusion because I advocate the legalization of marijuana.
Well lets touch on that, marijuana has been proven to be less harmful than alcohol and tobacco and to be without the physical addiction in scientific studies, and yet the government makes it a criminal offence, where's the logic?
Why not legalize it and reap the windfall of additional taxes as well as freeing up the waste it creates through the policing of it and in the courts.
Will it turn everybody into junkies? Get real it will be a personal choice the same as now, as is tobacco and alcohol.
As for me Wrong again I am as drug free as the pope. er maybe that's a bad choice at this point But I would be happy to piss in a cup for you if you need proof
Why do people feel that the legalization of alcohol and tobacco is a good reason to legalize pot.Yea it is a personal choice but the side effects of addictions cost society as a whole.
What is the cost to the health care system from tobacco and alcohol related illnesses?
What is the cost of crime due to the addiction of both of these products?
What about the emotional tolls these take on people as a whole watching loved ones die and being victims of crimes this carries no financial cost directly unless you factor in any therapy needed.
What about the trickle down effect in the backed up waiting lists for cancer treatment, the need created for more human organs.
Can an already strained society really afford the side effects of pot?
I agree. Society is not ready for an onslaught of the munchees. 
Exactly society can't handle anymore weight related illnesses.Thanks I forgot about that one
quote:
posted by NIGHTS:
Whoa Pinebushes_Scotty, your blowing my mind and freaking me out man, the way you can tell so much about a person after reading one post on the internet, Man your just like Kreskin
But I would be happy to piss in a cup for you if you need proof
Hey NIGHTS what walks like a duck and talks like a duck is usually a drugged out CAW guy
No dont piss in a cup on my account, PISS ON A CAW CARD
PBS, I am a member of the UFCW, WOW isn't that a kick in the ass.
There are many costs already associated with drugs, prisons, justice system overload, law enforcement and health care costs, which are borne legal or illegal.
I think the taxpayer would come out ahead if drugs were legalized and dispensed at the "drugstore" say under prescription or other controlled method.
But I think the most compelling reason for the legalization of marijuana is the widespread use. If the majority of the people want it ...so be it.
When alchohol was outlawed in the twenties....organized crime gained the biggest influx of cash ever. So why are we creating a situation where crime is prevalent and lucrative?
After all smoking marijuana is a victimless crime.
I agree that "pot" is very popular (Trust me I had some wild teen times) My brother is quite the pot-head and is a very successful man.
Yes it should be legal, I have no problem with that BUT it has to be policed.
A lot of "drug abusers" did just start out with pot and then moved on to harder and dangerous drugs.
I think about my kids and what might happen to them in the future.
I also agree that alcohol is even a bigger problem with people and can be deadly for i have had someone close to me die while she was driving drunk!
NIGHTS you say your a UFCW member, What local do you belong to and where is your workplace?
quote:
NIGHTS you say your a UFCW member, What local do you belong to and where is your workplace?
Sorry can't give that information out here, The death squads might be watching.
But if you really think that matters just give brother Kevin a call and ask him.
quote:
posted by NIGHTS:
But if you really think that matters just give brother Kevin a call and ask him.
So I will call him and say hey Kevin hows it going?
Who is NIGHTS?
At least in my name you know who I am and where I work....
I do not fear CAW followers, I would like to discuss things with them
quote:
So I will call him and say hey Kevin hows it going?
Who is NIGHTS?
Please feel free to post my name after {he} tells it to you, it's really not a big secret.
quote:
At least in my name you know who I am and where I work
Pinebushes is your first name ?
quote:
I do not fear CAW followers, I would like to discuss things with them
Holy cow you have a short memory, perhaps you should piss in a cup.
quote:
posted by NIGHTS:
Pinebushes is your first name ?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry what I meant to say is that 99% of the people at Maple Grove know who I am and that I work at PineBush.
This is interesting reading, you see get to see a real glimpse of what the union infighting is all about and democracy isn't it, it seems to be used as a tool in the fight between the ufcw and the caw.If the caw really felt the workers voice mattered why is this their stance?
The responding party ("the union") contends that the application is untimely because it follows closely on the heels of another application for termination of bargaining rights, which was dismissed following the taking of a representation vote. The union says this application should not be entertained by the Board, having regard to subsections 111(2) (k) and (3) of the Act. The union states there should be no representation vote, and the application ought to be dismissed, or in the alternative, that the ballot box in the representation vote should be sealed.
http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onlrb/2004/2004onlrb10561.html
Where is the deomcracy here or is democracy only tool to be put away when the dollars and cents issue is raised, and weilded when trying to woo in new members?
Is tha CAW application valid , in your opinion FU?
It certainly does not seem right to me, the workers need to be heard and their wishes adhered to.
The Caw action does not seem proper to me, a democrat, but this in no way validates the UFCW and their non-democratic policies.
It wasn't about validating anything, it was as most of my post on this are meant to show the caw and the ufcw operate very much the same way.The caw's great claim of democracy though seems to go out the window when they are about to lose dues.
By the way when is your next hearing scheduled bb?
Thought you lodged an appeal over the RCSS contract and women.
Fed Up, YOU ARE A UFCW INSIDER.
I have not revealed that this aspect of the case was still going. Only the Company lawyers, Union and the Board should know.
A reconsideration application was filed in December last year.
The Board invited arguments about the single issue of gender discrimination and whether there a prima facie case, by decision available online dated Jan. 8 2004.
The Company and Union filed responses and I was allowed to rply to the responses.
Those documents were filed March 12 2004.
Fed Up, I have nothing to hide and all you need to do is ask, that is a conversation. Repeatedly you will not answer questions, that is insulting.
Why are you here? What is your purpose?
Why do you care about the Reconsideration Application? Proper response are in order, or dont bother asking any more questions of me.
And dont give me any lip service about "I would make the best decisions for the members"
proper answers from a "proper" fellow
or is improper?
The truth shall set you free.
Answers Fed Up, not questions.
I have stated over and over again I came here because this site was talked about at work read some stuff and then researched for myself and started posting the other side of thing.
I asked because I was interested I do not believe you have a case espicially in light of the new stats out today from stats can.You have to prove that the union and loblaws are intending to discriminate against women on purpose with this deal and that they entered into this contract with malice towards women.Which will be hard to prove seeing as at the zehrs i shop at cashiers are male and female and the last new hires i saw there were male.
You know people here have got to stop drinking so much coffee or get some nerve tablets.
I wont be debating the merits of the reconsiderstion application here.
But more importantly where and who informed you of the recent developement? And also whoever informed , have you considered their motive?
But to also have you start a conversation about it is suspect. Why do you want to talk about it?
quote:
You have to prove that the union and loblaws are intending to discriminate against women on purpose with this deal and that they entered into this contract with malice towards women
Interesting comment FU. It appears that you do not disagree that there is discrimination, just whether or not it is intentional.
Doing nothing to address an issue which undermines a workers' worth, man or woman, is as harmful as condoning or fascilitating discriminatory labour practice.
Actually the only time I feel min. wage is a crime is when someone is forced to try and support a family on it.I think it is good for kids the majority of the min. wage workers to start at the bottom of the pay scale see what it is like so that as these kids go off to college and other places the hope is they remember what it is like to get that wage and when they can they do their part to make things better they do so.
I started off pt at around 4 and change i believe, so i appreciate what i earn now in fact i was able to appreciate every wage increase i got after that and never took for granted what i got.
quote:
Actually the only time I feel min. wage is a crime is when someone is forced to try and support a family on it.
Which would encompass much (all) of ufcw's newest contracts. The majority of my co-workers are trying to raise a family on the second tier wage scale, topping out at just under $11 an hr. I would better understand your argument if the same jobs which offered wage advancement a few years ago still held true, they don't. It's important to understand this isn't temporary. Service jobs have been undermined by concessions and backroom deals and there isn't much else to choose from.
quote:
I think it is good for kids the majority of the min. wage workers to start at the bottom of the pay scale see what it is like so that as these kids go off to college and other places the hope is they remember what it is like to get that wage and when they can they do their part to make things better they do so.
I'm not sure how kids working after school can fill all the staffing needs in the service industry. There's a huge gap in that theory FU.
quote:
I started off pt at around 4 and change i believe, so i appreciate what i earn now in fact i was able to appreciate every wage increase i got after that and never took for granted what i got.
So basically what you are saying is unless you've banged your head against the brick wall there is no way to appreciate how good it feels not to have a headache?
I guess I don't understand why we're not supposed to take good things in life for granted. It seems to me life was meant to be pleasant, where is the harm in being completely free of all things bad?
And because we're not there... yet, who is to say your lifes lessons are correct or the only way, that the way you got thru life is the right way? I'll bet your parents can one up ya' when it comes to appreciating one thing or another. "when I was a kid, I had to walk 10 miles to school in 40 below weather and...
It amazes me that there are still people who believe their way is the only way, so you did it the hard way and now wish to impose those same hardships on all who come after?
And FU try to shake off the old, where is it written that life cannot be a bowl of cherries, oh I forgot, it wasn't that way for you, so that must mean it can't be.
The reason I can say what I do is that myself along with others in my place of work see young guys who have never worked anywhere else and have gotten full time with good benefits right away and do not understand how good they have it.They think that these types of jobs are a dime a dozen.
But you know what it does not matter what I say here because I am happy being in the ufcw, I happy to be making good money,I happy to have the option open to me to move to another city and keep employed with this company I am happy to have union bro's sis's that give me bargining power spread out over 5 warehouse so I am going to be crapped on.
Oh and just for the record I do not wish my past on anyone because life is a bitch when your 24 and you hear doctor tell your parents your chances of surviving are less than 50/50
Fed Up, How fascinating that you just happened upon bb's labor board complaint and posted it here first.
IMO this is just more proof of the game you and your partners are here to play, the lot of you have done more IMO to damage the UFCW's reputation than I could believe possible, maybe it's time to take your ball and go home.
And please don't use the sympathy card because I could write a book.
bb, I hope this will make the members who bought the union/company slandering of you think twice about your true convictions and take a real stand with you this time.
And this for the membership, I believe Justice Mclean ruled that the membership would have little or nothing meaningful to ad regarding the RCSS deal struck in secret between the company and the union, think about that.
Good luck brother,
In solidarity
NIGHTS
Actually I have no use for sympathy, I rely on my experiences to show compassion.
But the fact that is so much mistrust here coupled with other example of classic paranoid personality disorder I understand your fear of me.My fellow co worker makes a joke about me being the nephew of the union local president and almost all seem ready to accept this as gospel.To say that there is paranoia here or that some members are paranoid is not name calling it is fact based on the definition:
Paranoid
Paranoid personality disorder is characterized by a distrust of others and a constant suspicion that people around you have sinister motives. People with this disorder tend to have excessive trust in their own knowledge and abilities and usually avoid close relationships with others. They search for hidden meanings in everything and read hostile intentions into the actions of others. They are quick to challenge the loyalties of friends and loved ones and often appear cold and distant to others. They usually shift blame to others and tend to carry long grudges.
http://www.4degreez.com/misc/disorder_information2.html
enjoy your weekend
Fed Up
I would swear that this was your personal bio!
quote:
Paranoid
Paranoid personality disorder is characterized by a distrust of others and a constant suspicion that people around you have sinister motives. People with this disorder tend to have excessive trust in their own knowledge and abilities and usually avoid close relationships with others. They search for hidden meanings in everything and read hostile intentions into the actions of others. They are quick to challenge the loyalties of friends and loved ones and often appear cold and distant to others. They usually shift blame to others and tend to carry long grudges.
It would explain alot about your actions here and at work, thanks for the insight.
DeMoN
Oh, and one more thing, Fed Up is NOT related to any UFCW officials and is here because someone at Maple Grove ask him to check out MFD.
I do however see him and Slic (who is currently a paid employee of the UFCW) whispering sweet nothings to each other on occasion.
DeMoN
Demon I thought you told me you decided not to post anymore . Now come on Demon your upset with me because I did not jump on your bandwagon and opted to post the other side of things.
Paranoid me, what gives me away the tin foil hat
What's the mattter you want me to whisper sweet nothings to you?
You and I have talked and I have told you how I felt without the need to start yelling at you can you say the same?
HAVE A NICE DAY
So when exactly are the whole lot of you going to stop talking about each other and start discussing the issues instead?
Perhaps we should implement a moratorium on maple grove threads? I'd hate to do that but, to date, these MG topics have been about as useful as a road map in the desert.
So, it's up to all of you; clean up your act or be forced to take it elsewhere. This will be my last post on the matter; it'll simply be locks and/or bans in the future.
Funny I told Demon this may happen but I predicted it was going to happen in the workplace. I wonder am I half right, half wrong or human
P.S. thanks E for clearing up the whole nephew thing, like everyone else I am the love child of unions and business
quote:
Actually the only time I feel min. wage is a crime is when someone is forced to try and support a family on it. I think it is good for kids the majority of the min. wage workers to start at the bottom of the pay scale see what it is like so that as these kids go off to college and other places the hope is they remember what it is like to get that wage and when they can they do their part to make things better they do so.
Fed Up, if you ain't a machine head, you are next in line for a UFCW paid position. Your thought process is sooooooo machine head.
Ya, disposable union members only deserve disposable wages. You've got the UFCW thought process fine tuned. I see a fancy car, big paycheque and lots of luxurious trips in your future.
Who said anything about disposable people, who is to say they do not stay on and work their way up?
Hey if a union can get better fine but in the end I do believe those with responsibilities should have a wage that allows them to feed their families.
As far as the fancy things keep them I like the simple life.The less I have the less I have to lose in the end and less to tie me down to any one place.
In this instance, I think changing unions is more than expecting better representation. It's a message to the UFCW.
It's a message that no union has the right to cut a deal without your input. The UFCW is there because of a deal cut with the employer. The CAW is there because horrified workers called them in.
If this was a case of two groups of non-union workers having differences about who is the better union, I'd advise them to cast their nets wider for representation.
However, in this case, the UFCW was anointed by the employer and that in itself is not in the best interest of the people who work there.
Never, ever let your employer pick your union for you. It can't represent your interests over those of its shareholders. It is bound by law to pick a union that will act in the best interest of its shareholders.
That is the most compelling reason of all to pick the CAW if there are only two unions running.
It's not because the CAW is pristine and tough, it's because the CAW was chosen by people who work for a living.
That short sighted thinking could cost future employees a better chance at full time jobs.
The caw was not called by horrified workers the caw has been trying to get in since the day that ex members came through the door.
The union and the company signed a contract giving the ufcw bargining rights for the em[ployees hired there the same sort of deals the caw has done in fact there are case where the caw in negiotations with an auto company has asked that the company put pressure on an auto parts supplier to allow the caw in.
If we want something said to the ufcw we will say in a way that gets us the most.Bringing a 3rd union still leaves us with less barginning power and no portability.Learn the real issues before you weigh in on this.
I stand by my assertion.
quote:
Never, ever let your employer pick your union for you. It can't represent your interests over those of its shareholders. It is bound by law to pick a union that will act in the best interest of its shareholders.
The UFCW is the President's Choice and that's not good for any person who works for a living.
Maybe you don't need a union at all. If you can trust your employer to pick a union for you, maybe you can trust it to treat you fairly without any union.
You know what weiser it seems to me that you and the rest of the moderators you do not really care what happens to the working men and women at maplegrove but rather you would be happy to see the ufcw lose all those members dues and the consequences be damned. You and this site are a tool that the caw organizers use to further their interest.This is not about reform this about trying to get one union that benefits some and another one out if it was not the ufcw it would not even appear here and they would have never used this site as a means to try and get their way.
Wow! That's paranoid UFCW machine-head logic if I've ever heard it.
This site is peppered with posts liberally spanking Buzz boy. Teamsters and pipefitters have gotten swift kicks too. Meanwhile, the CSN and the AUPE have gotten kudos. Likewise, UFCW Local 789 and the fine folks who serve its members.
Fed Up, ya make me think that ya have a UFCW machine head screamin' up yer ass when ya spew paranoid crap like that.
Calling me machince head, anyone here got anything original to say?
And may I ask what is the preoccupation with going up someone's rear end? I am noticing a trend here at this site.
Why in particular were these unions mentioned are they maybe touted be certain posters on this site and be honest I know why they were mentioned so please share with those who may not know.
quote:
Why in particular were these unions mentioned are they maybe touted be certain posters on this site and be honest I know why they were mentioned so please share with those who may not know.
Oh, so now you're offering to be honest. Well, go ahead; tell us why.
Fu what's the deal with the blind faith?
What Unions have you worked for? sorry with?
Why so worried about losing your job when LCE is doing so well?
If both unions are the same as you put it what is the harm in exploring the alternative? And why the hostility towards the CAW?
How does Leting a Co pick a union benifit the workers?
And how does it put Full-time jobs at risk?
Do you not think that it is odd that the Co went into court with the UFCW inorder to supress the representation vote in 2001?
Why would the Co care which union is in house?
What do you think the reall issues are at MG from the "dissgruntled " side?
Are there not UFCW organisers using this site to spread their own half truths?
What guarantee do we have that the 1000A will not negotiate and sign a deal behind our backs?
Are they willing to give us a guarantee in writing?
If they aren't willing then why aren't they?
What could be the reason?
If we vote no to this comming contract is it not true that we negotiate on our own and lose the protibility?
And by doing so would we not lose the Strength in numbers?
Is the 1000A going to back us if we decide to go out to the street Or sell us out?
Would it be concidered collusion if some of the UFCW supporters where posting here using a monitored computer network from within Maplegrove?
Wouldn't the IP address be the same?
I have been honest all along you want to call me a liar go ahead, it seems that all your good for is name calling.
Could it be Bill P is amember of 789
and Finnamore seemed high on Aupe CSN
And you guys say I have someone telling me what say.
Answer the question FU.
Ah, so you fear ex-UFCW guys. Like they don't know that the UFCW is shit and aren't afraid to say so. They saw the crap first hand and were good enough to share it.
I think they know a bit more than you or Bush boy.
There is no blind faith but you did sell me good on the ufcw in the video dougle.
Energy and chemical workers was my first and i have been a member of cupe also.
Me I am not worried why are you?
Dougle read the reasons I like the ufcw over the caw and then in the other posts where I have conveyed what they have done.
Company did not pick read your contract.
Nope seen it with other unions too, in this case they had a signed contract to defend with their name on it.
Why don't you ask them if they and the company will sign a contract that cannot be opened.
Dougle things like portability and strength in numbers is good so why vote against, oh yeah because your happy in cambridge and do not give a rat's ass about anyone else.
So now you are saying I am more than one person Dougle give your head and shake you know me.
At the time of that video I almost had the same outlook on the UFCW as you do now. Look back to my earlier posts in 2001 there still there.
However since then, my perception has changed and broadened, through education and listening instead of argueing, as I no longer see that I would be stuck in any particular job unless by choice. With people's life style's, family situations changing as well as, the business. It has opened and created postings.... therefore movement.... However the premium postings such as Mon-Fri, Sun-Thurs, Tues-Sat would be considered a rare, Which are rare even at the Mississauga Branches.
With in a couple of years Loblaws employees in Ontario will be only representated by the UFCW. This is potentially a major problem for us rank and file. Two factions dictate the way we work and how much we will get paid for it. They don't have to come and see us in order to do it, If they feel that they don't legaly have to.
The Co wants the UFCW can't you see that. Why else would they (Co) agree to the voluntary reconization deal? The benifits to the Co are enormus. They Already have a CA therefore knows the labor costs. Are able to transfer skilled and qualified people into those jobs, therefore making a return sooner. etc.
I don't want the Co to agree I want the UFCW to agree. It takes both inorder to open the CA mid term. So by making the UFCW "accountable" to us by our Pres Mr Corpron signing a document stating that while he is in the drivers seat so to speak they won't go to the table without coming to see all of us the rank and file. The penality? Got any suggestions?
There would be more of a reason to vote no to a contract other than that I am happy where live. And don't be mistaken I do care about the others even those at the other warehouses because I know that they aren't getting the kind of things that a real union would be able to give them.
Ya I know ya but the thing is that when two people post things on MFD the IP address would be the same if they were using the same network like at MG.
So...
How does Leting a Co pick a union benifit the workers?
And how does it put Full-time jobs at risk?
Why would the Co care which union is in house?
What do you think the reall issues are at MG from the "dissgruntled " side?
Are there not UFCW organisers using this site to spread their own half truths?
Is the 1000A going to back us if we decide to go out to the street Or sell us out?
Dougle:
Are you going to the UFCW meeting tommorrow afternoon?
If so do you want to go for coffee after?
I could smack some sense into you
JOKE, DAMN IM JOKING GEESH
Don't believe him Dougle, he had his fingers crossed
DeMoN
Hey Demon your always screaming about democracy and how unfair the RCSS deal was, I would like you to please explean the position you took at the general meeting where you asked the union to strip the day one senority off it's members and cited the ORLB ruling, saying you can legally do it.
So here how it would play now using that scenerio
You-represent the company
The Union is the union
Day one employees would be like the store staff
You did not want those members to have a say in their future, it goes to show everything is just a ruse you do not care what it takes to get the caw in, no matter the sacrifice to the rest of us.
Fed-Up:
did you notice I put a UFCW sticker on one of the CAW supporters cars
I was hoping DeMoN would have been at the afternoon one, because I needed a laugh.
By the way who is the CAW supporter they call "Pastey"?
Fed Up
quote:
Hey Demon your always screaming about democracy and how unfair the RCSS deal was, I would like you to please explean the position you took at the general meeting where you asked the union to strip the day one senority off it's members and cited the ORLB ruling, saying you can legally do it.
The point I was trying to make was that the ORLB ruled that the union could legally amend the CA without ratification (as they did with the RCSS deal), so why would they say no to amending the CA at Maple Grove but say yes to amending the CA for the retail workers!
quote:
So here how it would play now using that scenerio
You-represent the company
The Union is the union
Day one employees would be like the store staff
You did not want those members to have a say in their future, ti goes to show everything is just a ruse you do not care what it takes to get the caw in, no matter the sacrifice to the rest of us.
Well professor I don't have the slightest idea what you are trying to say here, maybe Pinebushes_Scotty could help me out with a translation.
DeMoN
Oh so now your saying it is okay because it was legally okay, I guess then you can not say anything against the ufcw now that you agree with and want them to use that ruing to remove another person's rights.
But you would be happy if they did because that could possibly be a person who gets mad and then you can work to get them to vote caw.
Building a reform movement or trying to unify on hate good idea Demon it worked for the nazis, and nothing bad happened there did it?
Fed Up
You still don't get it, I wanted to find out why it was ok on one hand but not the other to do what they did. They keep saying it's impossible to amend the CA without a vote from the entire warehouse division and I say bullshit, you've already done it at retail without a vote.
Since coming to Maple Grove we've been asking for the UFCW to hold a VOTE (at Maple Grove) on removing "letter of understanding #6" from the CA and the results have been less than successful.
I don't condone what the UFCW did to the retail workers last summer, in fact I think it will introduce a whole new way of doing sleezy back room deals for the UFCW and I hope we don't end up as "test case #2".
Since the meeting went so damn long I couldn't stay till the end, maybe you could enlighten me on what the big news was going to be at the meeting.
I'm sitting on the end of my seat waiting for this great news...... Say, it wasn't the news that Brian Read was worried about the fate of the Pinebush workers when their warehouse closes in the fall of 2005 and all their work goes to a third party warehouse..........was it?
DeMoN
DeMoN
It is not difficult to figure out why the Union agreed to amend the contract. Follow the money.
It benefitted the "parties" namely the Union and the Company. And dont think that it wont happen again, if it benefitted the parties, they can do it again.
Demon you know there are options out there for the fixing of any precieved inequities at maple grove but you opposed them.Why do that they mean peace and a stronger union? Oh yeah that defeats your purpose of trying to get the caw in.
You have to quit behaving like a child demanding what you want, when you want it.The fact you would exploit an already sensitive subject as a means to further your interests shows you niether have the interest of maple grove or the whole collective of the 5 warehouse at heart.
As far as pinebush is concerned they are hiring more full time employees this week, seems their future is okay, there are alot of products out there and lot you do not know brother.
bb all of the caw contrcts i have read so far have the company giving money to the union, seems pretty standard.
After reading these forums for the past 2 weeks, it's seems to me that "FedUp" must be next in line for management at maplegrove (if not already one). Unless he is too busy sitting infront of a computer screen (posting from maplegrove?) too notice that our union (UFCW) is useless.
Pinebushes_scotty, it sounds like UFCW actually sticks up for the workers over at PineBush, or so it would seem by your praising. Have you ever worked at MapleGrove?
I do believe we need a change in union's, ive seen this union (UFCW) screw there members too many times to vote for them.
quote:
the whole collective of the 5 warehouse at heart.
Why is it that there isn't a MG nominated and elected bargining person going to the table for our interests?
Should the people at MG care what happens in Mississauga when they don't want us to have a voice at the table?
Isn't true that they couldn't trust the elected bargining person? Remember what was said at the 3:00 meeting.
I believe we have observers who are elected stewards going and I believe Brian Reid is from our warehouse also.
cas you saying you think i am management shows you really have not been paying attention to any things said here.
Hey "FedUp", Whats the deal with the "posting from maplegrove"?
Wonders Never Cease
DeMoN wrote:
"Oh, and one more thing, Fed Up is NOT related to any UFCW officials and is here because someone at Maple Grove ask him to check out MFD. I do however see him and Slic (who is currently a paid employee of the UFCW) whispering sweet nothings to each other on occasion."
DeMoN, once again you have HALF the story, at best. You are a liar. Yes, I said LIAR. Now prove me wrong, as I CAN prove my statement, therefore I can state it. So let's get to it. First you state that someone at Maple Grove ask FedUp to check out MFD. I say you are lying. I challenge you to prove otherwise.
You say that "Slic" is currently a paid employee of the UFCW. I challenge you to prove it. Keep in mind the only way for you to prove it would entail violation of the Privacy Law. Please try it.
You go on to say about FedUp; "I do however see him and Slic (who is currently a paid employee of the UFCW) whispering sweet nothings to each other on occasion."
Interesting, you say on occasion, meaning more than once. Again, a lie. And of course you have confused extremely casual conversation with "sweet nothings". If you want to know the difference between the two, "sweet nothings" with the emphasis on NOTHING is what you and your PASTY friend exchange on a DAILY basis, daily meaning it has happened more than once.
I don't know but it is quite posssible that you are just dumb.
Dougle wrote:
"Why is it that there isn't a MG nominated and elected bargining person going to the table for our interests? Should the people at MG care what happens in Mississauga when they don't want us to have a voice at the table? Isn't true that they couldn't trust the elected bargining person? Remember what was said at the 3:00 meeting."
Dougle,
What are you talking about brother? You make absolutely no sense here. First if you are going to say "Remember what was said at the 3:00 meeting" then tell us so we know what you are specifically referring to, especially those who weren't there that may be reading this Message Board.
Your statement is WRONG. Your interpretation of what you heard is WRONG. You were told that the Maple Grove Transport Department would have one (1) Staff Representative and two (2) elected Transport Stewards at the Bargaining Table. You were told that Warehouse would be represented by one (1) Staff Representative, one (1)) Divisional Officer, and three (3) elected Stewards. That is a total of, excluding the Staff Representatives, six (6) voices at the table. And you say 'they don't want us to have a voice at the table'. That is six (6) voices, count them, six (6). That is all the fingers on one of your hands plus one (1) finger on your other hand. Unless you are Antonio Alfonseca (Relief Pitcher Chicago Cubs) and you have six (6) fingers on each hand. It makes me wonder what your agenda is when you took that information and came up with the questions/statement you made. What kind of filter do you use when you take in information?
And one more thing, you were clearly told that the Union is putting together a contract proposal that addresses the specifics of the Maple Grove warehouse. The Union wishes to do that so the Maple Grove employees can be satisfied with the Collective Agreement that they will have an opportunity to ratify for themselves in order to take advantage of the improvements in 2004 as opposed to 2006. But somehow you see that negatively. Go figure.
CoolAsIce wrote:
Hey "FedUp", Whats the deal with the "posting from maplegrove"?
CoolAsIce, "FedUp" posted on 03-31-2004 03:41 PM. As I understand "FedUp" was OFF on March 31st and therefore NOT at work, therefore NOT at Maple Grove, therefore like DeMoN and Dougle before you CoolAsIce, you are incorrect.
If it is any consolation though I do like the handle "CoolAsIce".
Ok, Well seeing as I have no idea who "FedUp" is I wouldnt know if he was working.
So when you say we will have (3) Elected Stewards going, does that mean we will all get to vote for which steward goes? or UFCW picks the stewards to go for us?
If "DeMoN" gets proof that your a paid UFCW official is UFCW going to sue him with his own union dues?
Tell the truth!
Section 86 of the LRA is there to protect workers who do not have a Collective Agreement. It is not there for current unionized workers. At the Maple Grove warehouse some rumors are speading in respect to section 86. It does not mean a new agreement with a new union will be garaunteed to be better than the existing CA. If that was true than in nine years we will have an amazing CA. The law does not support this. Section 86 is there to protect workers when a union goes into negotiations, usually a first contract with the company, so the co. does not screw them.
Stop the lies! Be honest when you are manipulating new workers to join your power hungry movement at Maple Grove. Stop the lies!
Thanks
What difference does it make as to reeboks employer? Why would the union sue Demon if he finds out that info? I don't understand? Could you please elaborate?
Cas if you were at the meeting you would understand the people who go to the negiotations have to be trutworthy or the union could be accused of bargining in bad faith if the negiotations were leaked while ongoing, there will be stewards there who were from both kitchener and hamilton.
Stewards we elected who are trustworthy and have looked after our best interest.
edelio the reason he asks i believe because such information would be gained possibly through only an invasion of privacy ie stealing of union files with private information such as yours and everyones elses sin numbers on them.
If you read CAS's post it insinuates that it would be illegal for reebok to post here if he was an official. It also seems by his post that the discovery of such information would lead to a lawsuit against Demon. I still do not get it
Niether do I, I think it would only be illeagal to post anything here if you signed an agreement not divulge any information you have.
Did I miss something? I haven't seen any insinuations that claim I shouldn't be posting. I think you are referring to another contributor.
Confused and thanks
Confused here too! I just don't understand CAS's statement. Kinda thru me for a loop! Ifthere was a lawsuit, I thought it would be for organizing with another union while sitting as a steward for the one he wants out. Or the organizing being done on work hours. Is that illegal?
A rep stated that they have to be carefull as to whom goes to the table because of the bargining in good faith aspect. If a person who is in there decides to go and tell what is happening inside to outside persons or the membership could the Co not take this as not bargining in good faith? Is this not the reason for the union choosing the elected stewards because they can control who goes in?
Hence the Questions
No we were not told about the bargining committee makeup either. Could have been the time when someone was asking questions of me.
So what your saying is that we will have six persons at the table from MG?
I get that contract bit about addressing the issues at MG however when sitting at the table and having to negotiate for the other warehouses as well where is MG on the list of priorities?
Have to worry about Pinebush closing. Where the work from Ajax is comming from and the employees jobs at those facilities. The needs of Erinmills "the mothership" so to say. etc. The membership at MG is worried that they will get lost in the shuffle and our needs could be put on the back burnner because the needs of the other warehouses could be concidered greater than ours.
quote:
It makes me wonder what your agenda is when you took that information and came up with the questions/statement you made.
Just responding to Mr Fedup's statement to DeMoN.
quote:
The fact you would exploit an already sensitive subject as a means to further your interests shows you niether have the interest of maple grove or the whole collective of the 5 warehouse at heart.
How would maple grove be different from the other warehouses as far as issues go?
The part about bad faith bargining were made at the 11 am meeting as far as the other meetings I am not sure if the issue came up, the fact they held meetings and took in proposals shows that our interest are being cared for too.
If you feel they are not Dougle or if we as a whole feel they are not then we can vote against it, but why not find out what we can get first before cutting ourselves off from our brothers and sisters in the other warehouses.
edelio, FedUp, reebok and DeMoN,
Let me clarify.
I wrote in response to DeMoN:
"You say that "Slic" is currently a paid employee of the UFCW. I challenge you to prove it. Keep in mind the only way for you to prove it would entail violation of the Privacy Law. Please try it."
Here is what I was and am saying. First, DeMoN is a LIAR. Second, and exclusive of the preceding statement, if DeMoN were to prove that Slic was a paid UFCW official, then there are two things worth noting. First, he, being DeMoN, would have to violate the Privacy Law in order to prove that, and second, where does it state that "paid officials" are prohibited from posting on this Open Forum. So to conclude, he is shooting his mouth off but saying nothing.
I checked Webster's 2004 and it says:
DeMoN - half man half liar, indigenous to dark, damp, mossy nether regions, and in some instances the underside of what rhymes with autumn and starts with scro
Slic, What walks like a duck and talks like a duck is sure to be a duck. however in your case, Mr DeMoN is incorrect. It could be out of the confusion as to who is committee, organizer, or FT Union. sometimes it's hard to know who is who.
Mr FU,
Each DC has different needs and wants. Pinebush needs assurances that they are going to be taken care of when GM moves out. Perhaps the Three in mississauga want assurances of transfers etc... Day one and Day two are unique to only MG.
Is this the UFCW representation campain? Give us a chance at this contract then vote us out if you want?
Nope this is just a guy on the floor thinking out loud.Wouldn't you also want to see what we can get?
ummm....
Slic wrote
quote:
You say that "Slic" is currently a paid employee of the UFCW. I challenge you to prove it. Keep in mind the only way for you to prove it would entail violation of the Privacy Law. Please try it.
This is why I asked that question... understand now?
Didnt mean to confuse you all.
Dougle,
I am fair and so after reading your last posted message I say decent job for the most part. However, relax on the fear with respect to Maple Grove being represented at the Bargaining table and being taken care of.
Keep in mind how the process works. The idea is to get the five (5) current warehouses all together. Therefore in order to do so, and the ONLY way to do so is to come up with an Agreement that not only Erin Mills and Surveyor Road will ratify, but Freemont, Pinebush, and Maple Grove will ratify. Why would anyone attempt to negotiate a deal that is not favourable to the warehouses they are trying to get to buy in?
It is an extremely simple concept. I am hopeful you understand that and agree with it.
Finally, given what I have just stated, do you really think anyone will be looking to ignore Maple Grove issues, Freemont issues, Pinebush issues during the negotiations. Be real brother.
My concern is that when at the table If it comes down to a choice to get something for MG OR get something for Erinmills or the other DC's, that perhaps MG will lose out.
Dougle wrote:
"My concern is that when at the table If it comes down to a choice to get something for MG OR get something for Erinmills or the other DC's, that perhaps MG will lose out."
Dougle, come on brother, didn't you read what I wrote? Didn't you take my comments mix in some common sense and feel at ease in terms of your concerns?
Let me repeat some of what I stated in the earlier post, to AGAIN address your concern.
When it comes to a choice as you put it, "to get something for MG OR get something for Erinmills or the other DC's, that perhaps MG will lose out."
Lose out? Let's review.
Wages - how will you lose out? It's the same for all DCs.
Benefits - how will you lose out? It's the same for all DCs.
Pension - how will you lose out? It's the same for all DCs.
Overtime Language - how will you lose out? It's to be the same for all DCs.
Upgrades Language - how will you lose out? It's the same for all DCs.
Freezer Language - how will you lose out? It will be there for Surveyor Road (which is a freezer), and carry into the Maple Grove appendices.
Health and Safety Language - how will you lose out? It is to be the same for all DCs.
Standards - how will you lose out? It's to be the same for all DCs as soon as Arbitration is settled, and or Settlement reached.
Let me repeat another section again. PLEASE READ THIS BROTHER, TEN (10) TIMES IF YOU HAVE TO BUT PLEASE READ IT UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND it is fair and reasonable.
Keep in mind how the process works. The idea is to get the five (5) current warehouses all together. Therefore in order to do so, and the ONLY way to do so is to come up with an Agreement that not only Erin Mills and Surveyor Road will ratify, but Freemont, Pinebush, and Maple Grove will ratify. Why would anyone attempt to negotiate a deal that is not favourable to the warehouses they are trying to get to buy in?
It is an extremely simple concept. I am hopeful you understand that and agree with it.
Finally, given what I have just stated, do you really think anyone will be looking to ignore Maple Grove issues, Freemont issues, Pinebush issues during the negotiations. Be real brother.
IF ANYTHING, MAPLE GROVE ISSUES WILL BE A PRIORITY IN ORDER TO BRING EVERYONE TOGETHER IN THE FIVE (5) WAREHOUSES. THAT IS A FACT.
I think before the caw organizers knock anyone else they should spend a little time looking inside their own house, espicially before discussing how fast they deal with grievences and how accountable they are to the members, this case sounds like a nightmare:
While a delay of eight months is one that might give the Board cause for concern I am not going to dismiss this application for delay given the unique and unusual circumstances of this matter. First, the CAW had substantial delays in its processing of this grievance. There is no grievance more important to an individual than a termination grievance. Although the grievance moved quickly and efficiently through the grievance procedure, there was a delay from July 5, 2000 when Mr. Lenahan first found out that he would need to work with CAW counsellors to be in a position to be able to get his job back until October 3, 2002 when the CAW conclusively informed Mr. Lenahan that he would not be getting his job back. As well, we have the curious situation of a trade union telling the employer that it intended to go to arbitration (June 22, 2000), informing Mr. Lenahan that it would not put the case in front of an arbitrator (July 5, 2000), informing Mr. Lenahan that if the matter could not be resolved that the grievance would have to be withdrawn (October 16, 2001) and then the trade union referring the matter to arbitration (January 30, 2002). It is no wonder that Mr. Lenahan was less than clear as to the status of his grievance. Additionally, although there is a written referral of the grievance to arbitration, but there is no written record of the decision of the CAW not to proceed to arbitration.
9. Accordingly, the motion to dismiss this application for delay is dismissed.
10. It is clear to the Board that Mr. Lenahan does bear a portion of the blame for the length of time it has taken the parties to proceed from the date of termination to the date of the application to this Board. Accordingly, should this matter ever get to the stage of damages for this period, the Board is still open to the possibility that Mr. Lenahan should bear some or all of the brunt of that delay.
11. The matter is referred to the Registrar.
"Stephen Raymond"
for the Board
http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onlrb/2004/2004onlrb10049.html
Let the buyer beware is all I can say.
Isn't there going to be a certification vote earlier than this CA negotiation and vote? Jumping the gun a little bit boyz?
What are the UFCW offering the people at MG inorder to stay certified? Don't tell us why not the CAW tell us Why the UFCW.
What resourses do we have access to within the UFCW?
Has the UFCW made concessions when a Co wasn't in financial hardship?
How much will members get IF the UFCW goes out on the street?
How much is in the strike fund? How many picketing hours inorder to get that money?
How long do we get this money for?
Does the UFCW have a grievance filed for the loading standards? If yes how many?
How does the UFCW intend to fix the issue of Solidarity?
How is the UFCW going to combat the lax grievance structure that the Co abuses?
Will the UFCW give us more access to education for those who want it?
Will the UFCW stop listening to the need of the CO and start listening to our needs.
What gains within the labor movement field has the
UFCW produced or has been apart of in the last 10 years? or even 20?
What does the UFCW think was the effect on the labor movement concerning the RCSS deal? And how did it benifit the labor movement as a whole?
Can the UFCW promise to no major concessions as long as the Co continues to grow and make money?
More to come.
