Members for Democracy Archive

It's Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack !!!

Nice job by Basil Hargorve ... telling other unions to cross his picket line.

CN ... completely nuts.

Did I miss a memo?

When did quoting a source become a requirement or does quoting only apply to those who are not moderators?

justwondering

If you have information share it please, if not, you shouldn't make baseless allegations.

It makes you look like a desperate, afraid UFCW dinasour.

The UFCW should have many arguments about why they are better to represent the workers at Maplegrove, I can think of some myself, like experience in the food industry.

The fact that all the so-called UFCW supporters do not engage in intelligent discussion repulses possible allies. Use your wits, not baseless stupidity.

The CAW and CN is still at the table trying to come to a resolution. So this could be an act of good faith on the part of the CAW to keep talks going. I wouldn't doubt for a moment that if the situation became grave and CN walked away from the table and refused to sit down that buzz would then ask that the lines not be crossed and further measures would be taken.

So did Buzz tell you this himself or is this just based on your vast knowledge the CN/CAW negotaions?

I'm sorry, what is it you do?

justwondering

What is dougle all about ????????

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than some idiot breaks it up with a dumb comment

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irony++

Watch the ad-homs gg. If you have nothing pertinent to add, don't add anything at all.

Consider this a warning.

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posted by <twin>:
The fact that all the so-called UFCW supporters do not engage in intelligent discussion repulses possible allies. Use your wits, not baseless stupidity.

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WHAT??????

I have seen some very good points from US SO CALLED supporters

UFCW is the best Union for all of Loblaws
go back and kiss Basil and Aman's asses a little more

http://www.cnstrike.com/

If anyone is interested

Look, as much as I don't want to spoil the fun for the posters who are trying to make Hargrove's failure to ask other unions to honour the CAW's picket line look like some kind of invitation to scabbing, there are a few sad realities that need to be considered here:

1. In Ontario, refusing to cross another union's picket line can and most probably will lead to nasty legal consequences for the union that tells its members not to cross and firings for workers who refuse to obey their employers' orders to cross (well, they'll say it's a failure to do your job).

2. In Ontario, unions do not honour each other's picket lines.

3. Most CLC-affiliated unions hate Buzz Hargrove and the CAW and wouldn't honour a CAW picket line if their lives depended on it.

My assessment of the situation is that Hargrove has no expectation that any other union will honour a CAW picket line at CN or any other location and so he isn't asking them to for this reason. Nonetheless, he's a team player (on team CLC) and so doesn't want to make it look like he's outing them for the weasels that they are. His statement, that, "other unions with collective agreements wouldn't be asked to honour picket lines in the event of a strike, but their workers would be asked not to take on any additional tasks" is a pretty standard line among Canadian union leader about to take a bunch of members out on strike.

For the poster(s) who were taunting us about "sources", hey fellas, there are a lot of well-documented stories on this site. If there's someting you're wondering about, feel free to ask.

The issue of Crossing picket lines is different for CN and my company because we are both Federally Regulated and the Provincial laws do not apply to us.

In the real world there are consequences for everything. That garbage about no retaliation is only as good as.....the lawyer in the courtroom and how much you can pay.

From what I know this is not Basil Hargorve's first time ever crossing another Unions picket line.

C.A.W is getting pretty good at it !!

[QUOTE]posted by remote viewer:

My assessment of the situation is that Hargrove has no expectation that any other union will honour a CAW picket line at CN or any other location and so he isn't asking them to for this reason. Nonetheless, he's a team player (on team CLC) and so doesn't want to make it look like he's outing them for the weasels that they are. His statement, that, "other unions with collective agreements wouldn't be asked to honour picket lines in the event of a strike, but their workers would be asked not to take on any additional tasks" is a pretty standard line among Canadian union leader about to take a bunch of members out on strike.

I do not think I would call Buzz Hargrove a team player with the CLC and here is why
Canadian Labour Congress (CLC) has enforced 'full sanctions' against the Canadian Autoworkers union (CAW), because it has defied an 'impartial umpire's' ruling that it cease and desist in its efforts to recruit dissident locals from another CLC affiliate, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU).

The 'full sanctions' effectively suspend the CAW, the country's largest industrial union, from CLC membership. Indeed, the CAW charges that it has been expelled from the CLC and has threatened to found a rival labor federation.

CAW representatives have been removed from all executive bodies of the CLC, the provincial federations of labor and district labor councils and CAW members are barred from participating in virtually all activities organized by the CLC and its allied organizations. The CAW has responded by withholding over $1 million in dues to the CLC, withdrawing other funding for CLC activities, and slashing its contributions to the CLC-supported New Democratic Party.

The CLC constitution does permit dissident locals to disaffiliate from their parent body and ultimately join another affiliate, but not before going through a years' long procedure. Confident that it had the backing of the local SEIU leaders, the CAW chose to ignore this procedure, a decision which brought a quick and angry response from the CLC hierarchy. The SEIU placed all eight locals under trusteeship, fired their elected leaders, brought a $5.5 million lawsuit against some thirty SEIU officials who were involved in the defection to the CAW and appealed to the CLC to impose sanctions against the CAW for 'raiding.' On April 14, a CLC arbitrator found the CAW guilty of raiding and on July 1, after attempts to reach a negotiated settlement failed, the CLC suspended the CAW.
The CLC is resting its case on the need for all affiliates to abide by a common set of rules, noting that in the past the CAW has itself made recourse to the very rules governing jurisdictional disputes that it has now chosen to ignore. The CAW, for its part, is making a show of standing for rank-and-file democracy and Canadian 'union autonomy.'

WSWS : News & Analysis : North America : Canada

Canada: What lies behind the split in the union officialdom?
By Lee Parsons
5 March 2001
Use this version to print | Send this link by email

Canada's official labor movement has been riven by a bitter jurisdictional dispute for well over a year. Since last July, the 2.3 million-member Canadian Labour Congress (CLC) has enforced 'full sanctions' against the Canadian Autoworkers union (CAW), because it has defied an 'impartial umpire's' ruling that it cease and desist in its efforts to recruit dissident locals from another CLC affiliate, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU).

The 'full sanctions' effectively suspend the CAW, the country's largest industrial union, from CLC membership. Indeed, the CAW charges that it has been expelled from the CLC and has threatened to found a rival labor federation.

CAW representatives have been removed from all executive bodies of the CLC, the provincial federations of labor and district labor councils and CAW members are barred from participating in virtually all activities organized by the CLC and its allied organizations. The CAW has responded by withholding over $1 million in dues to the CLC, withdrawing other funding for CLC activities, and slashing its contributions to the CLC-supported New Democratic Party.

Jurisdictional turf wars between rival union apparatuses are not uncommon. (According to the CAW, in the 1992-2000 period there were 72 jurisdictional disputes among CLC affiliates and in 20 cases member unions were found guilty of violating the CLC constitution.) What separates this dispute from previous ones is its bitterness and the apparent intransigence of both sides.

With more than 240,000 members, the CAW represents more than a tenth of the total CLC membership. But even this figure understates the stakes in the current dispute. The CAW has long been the country's most politically influential union and traditionally has wielded great influence in the CLC. Two of the four most recent CLC Presidents were former presidents of the CAW or its predecessor, the Canadian region of the United Auto Workers.

The CAW has long been promoted by the middle-class 'left' as a bastion of militancy, a supposedly progressive alternative to the 'business unionism' practiced by other unions. In the current dispute, organizations like the Communist Party of Canada and the International Socialists are urging the CLC and CAW leaders to reconcile their differences, claiming that a permanent split will weaken 'worker solidarity' and impede the unions' 'fightback' against big business.

Were it not for the misery and political confusion that the trade unions' and NDP's smothering of working class resistance to big business have wrought, such claims would be laughable.

The current dispute is a by-product of the unions' ever-more explicit subordination of their members' interests to the dictates of big business. In Canada, as throughout the industrialized world, the unions' acceptance of the corporate program of 'international competitiveness' has precipitated a steep decline in union membership-the percentage of Canadian workers who are unionized has fallen almost 10 percentage points since 1989-and an even more significant erosion of the union's political influence to the point where the union bureaucracy's ability to defend its own caste interests is threatened.

The NDP, the political party founded by the union bureaucracy, has been all but obliterated from the political map, a consequence of it having come to power in the country's most populous province only to impose sweeping social spending cuts and a wage-cutting 'social contract.'

At its crudest level, the jurisdictional dispute between the CAW and the SEIU involves a struggle over the dwindling pool of unionized workers. But it also indicates the real fears within the union officialdom over how to contend with an increasingly restless rank and file.

The background to the current dispute

The immediate issue in dispute between the CLC and the CAW is the fate of 30,000 of the 80,000 Canadian members of the SEIU, a union which represents janitors, nursing home and hospital workers.

In February of last year, Ken Brown, the then Canadian vice-president of the SEIU, organized a meeting at which the leaders of eight Ontario SEIU locals voted to bolt their parent union and join the CAW. Within days of seceding from the SEIU, the dissident locals transferred all their liquid assets to the CAW. Previously, Brown had been spearheading an effort for greater autonomy for the Canadian SEIU locals, which was premised on the claim that the SEIU's abject failure to defend its members wages, jobs, and working conditions in the face of government budget cuts and private employers' concession demands was because the union's Washington-based leadership was oblivious to Canadian concerns.

The CLC constitution does permit dissident locals to disaffiliate from their parent body and ultimately join another affiliate, but not before going through a years' long procedure. Confident that it had the backing of the local SEIU leaders, the CAW chose to ignore this procedure, a decision which brought a quick and angry response from the CLC hierarchy. The SEIU placed all eight locals under trusteeship, fired their elected leaders, brought a $5.5 million lawsuit against some thirty SEIU officials who were involved in the defection to the CAW and appealed to the CLC to impose sanctions against the CAW for 'raiding.' On April 14, a CLC arbitrator found the CAW guilty of raiding and on July 1, after attempts to reach a negotiated settlement failed, the CLC suspended the CAW.

At present, it is unclear to which union the bulk of the SEIU's original 30,000 strong-Ontario membership will belong. Where collective agreements have expired, the CAW has availed itself of labor code provisions that allow workers to switch unions to force union representation votes. Most of these have gone in the CAW's favor and it now claims to have gained more than 8,000 former SEIU members through such votes.

The CLC is resting its case on the need for all affiliates to abide by a common set of rules, noting that in the past the CAW has itself made recourse to the very rules governing jurisdictional disputes that it has now chosen to ignore. The CAW, for its part, is making a show of standing for rank-and-file democracy and Canadian 'union autonomy.'

Ongoing exchanges between the CLC and the CAW indicate there is faint hope the rift will be bridged. The CAW has continued to woo other SEIU locals. Last November, the CLC proposed a two-year moratorium on CAW efforts to enlist SEIU members at which time the fate of the disputed SEIU locals would be decided by a rank-and-file vote. The CAW responded by setting March 29th of this year as the deadline for final representation votes to determine the affiliation of members in the eight locals.

Despite his recent renegacy, CAW President Buzz Hargrove has been faithful to the bureaucratic apparatus and procedures of the trade union movement throughout his career. There is no question that the addition of the 30,000 SEIU members would significantly increase the dues income of the CAW and just as importantly greatly extend the CAW's presence in the public sector. But this alone cannot explain Hargrove's actions. Nor do the claims of the CLC leadership to be upholding order and due procedure 'in the house of labor' explain why they would risk a split that can only gravely comprise the CLC's credibility.

When Hargrove's argument that the CLC must be responsive to rank-and-file dissent is interrogated, what emerges is his fear that if the CAW does not try to harness this dissent it has the potential to become a threat to the union officialdom as a whole. As for the CLC leadership's response, it reflects not only the resentment of rival bureaucrats that the CAW is poaching their members, but their fear that any restructuring of the unions not tightly-controlled from above could escape their control.

The CAW's claims and its record

As its dispute with the CLC has widened, the CAW leadership has sought to justify its actions by posing as a militant alternative to the union establishment. A report to a CAW conference last December declared, 'It is painful to recognize, but many of Canada's official labour bodies have become increasingly bureaucratic, ineffective, and inactive over recent years. Even under the leadership of someone as dynamic and widely respected as (former CAW President) Bob White, the CLC proved increasingly unable to carry out activist campaigns and struggles (no matter how many ‘action resolutions' were passed at CLC conventions).'

In an open letter to the union movement, Hargrove has pointed to the split that led to the CAW's creation in 1985 as embodying its fight for democracy and national autonomy. 'Many CAW members know first-hand the difficulties of dealing with U.S. union officials. We formed an independent union 15 years ago precisely because U.S. union leaders-even in a relatively progressive union, the UAW-refused to give up their control over our affairs. Since then, numerous other groups have joined the CAW, many after enduring decades of misrepresentation, poor service, or outright corruption and repression at the hands of U.S. unions.'

The balance sheet of the CAW's breakaway from the UAW shows something quite different and reveals the true validity of the CAW's claims to represent a progressive alternative for workers.

As Bob White, the CAW's founding president, admitted in his autobiography Hard Bargains, he led the secession of the Canadian division of the union because he feared and opposed the prospect of a united struggle by Canadian and U.S. autoworkers against the concessions policy of the UAW leadership. The UAW leadership well-recognized this and that is why, notwithstanding their vitriol against White, they gave the CAW $42 million at its formation. Moreover, the splitting of North America's auto workers into rival union organizations has assisted the auto makers in pitting workers in one country against those in the other.

And what of the CAW's claims to represent a bastion of militancy? The truth is the entire strategy of the CAW has been based on the more than 25 percent labor cost advantage that the auto makers enjoy in Canada due to the low value of the Canadian dollar and the state-financed national health plan.

The CAW leadership is acutely aware of this cost differential and has repeatedly appealed to the auto makers on this basis to close plants and cut jobs south of the border. Last fall, within days of Daimler-Chrysler installing a new management team at Chrysler, Hargrove flew to Detroit to 'educate' Chrysler's new bosses about the importance of Canada to their operations. Then when Chrysler announced massive job cuts, the CAW was quick to come to agreement with the company on an early retirement scheme so the company could slash its workforce without the threat of a rank-and-file revolt.

In particular, Hargrove has clashed with other CLC leaders over the unions' failed opposition to the Ontario Tory government, which has spearheaded the Canadian bourgeoisie's offensive against the working class. But Hargrove joined with the rest of the union officialdom in working to scuttle a 1997 strike by Ontario teachers that threatened to become a political struggle directed at driving the Tories from power. Then in the 1999 provincial election, the CAW called for 'strategic voting' for the Liberals, who ran on a program that in many respects was to the right of the Harris Tories.

I don't know about you but i do not call someone a friend or a team player that sabotages or steals from me.

With reference to the NDP -

Please remember if it was not for Tommy Douglas and the CCF - Canada (and the USA) would not know the medical system we have (somewhat) today.

I think I could safely say T.C. Douglas never anticipated the rape of his vision with regards to state of medicare, the state of unions, and the state of Canada as we see it today.

EDMONTON - Striking Canadian National Railway workers in Edmonton were venting nearly as much anger toward their union Friday as toward the railway's management.

"The bargaining committee was totally out of touch with our concerns," said one frustrated picketer. "They don't know what is going on in the workplace."

CAW spokesman Abe Rosner acknowledged in a phone interview from Montreal that the union "misread" what workers considered to be the major issues.

http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/story.asp?id=2FED3428-9AE2-43B3-B8C4-644208EF2A32

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posted by about unions:
After sitting back and watching it really looks to me that some people did not come to MFD with and open mind at all, but rather with the idea in mind of slinging mud at CAW for the sole purpose possibly of trying to affect votes!!!
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OPEN MIND???
this site only purpose has been to cut the crap out of the UFCW, thats why the address to this site is www.ufcw.net.
OPEN MIND or just a place for one-minded people to come sling there shit???

Its a real easy decision for people at Loblaws to stay with UFCW.

the members should just look at CAW's contracts they have had (and still do at one warehouse) with Loblaws and look at ours.

With the way the contracts are going and the threat of Walmart, The CAW would not even get close to what we are going to get this year during our new contract negotiations.

I am a educated guy that really has been focusing on the Labour and Union aspect of Loblaws, and without regret I honestly know that UFCW is the best for the workers at the L.C.E warehouses.

C.A.W should stick to the industry they are good at!
Peterborough's Warehouse got a contract through CAW a couple of years ago that was less than good it does not even look after the part-timers very much at all

Scotty... you forget that the 1000A hasn't negotiated a real contract in over a decade. in 94 under the threat of going third party, LCE wrote the contract that they wanted and the Membership signed in order to keep the Mill open. In 98 as I've said before gave the part-time a $4 a hour raise to keep them, and the rights to MG.... so to get the full-time on board we got $4 a hour over 5 years.

With that said Why does the UFCW supporters think that the 1000A can negotiate good contracts?

What is so good about the contract we have now besides the money?

Do people who live in the Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo area really interested in moving to a new city where the cost of living is twice as high? (portability)

That was a very informed comment.
Thank You.

LOL

The Local 1000A has the best Collective Agreement in the warehouse sector. There are negotiations coming in the October 2004. The next contract, I was told by my steward, will be head and shoulders above the rest.
Comparing recently negotiated contracts at Sobey's our current agreement is still much better.
Thanks

Scotty....Yes I enjoyed the portability we are talking about, coming from Mississauga to Cambridge to MG.
However my point is that for my brothers and sisters to transfer out of MG it would be taking a step backwards financially. Homes, rent, and land taxes in Mississauga, Milton even Ajax are extremely high. And those commuting from Hamilton enjoy less traffic to and from work.

So it would be a benefit more so for those who want to come from Mississauga to Cambridge. With that in mind along with the fact that if day 2 transfer out of MG they only go into the new facility with only the seniority that they have accumulated at MG, I don't see this as an issue for the Majority of people at MG.

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Im not sure what the hell you are talking about but I was talking about PORTABILITY!!!

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"I know you think you are debating which union is better but it looks, on your part, more like a sandbox struggle and you don't want anyone to have any toys."

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You now siggy that was probably one of the most disgusting things i have read so far today.

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It's still early...

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How exactly have you come up with an equation which caps our worth and how the hell do you justify it in the face of the billions that pass thru the economic tunnel of love?

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Answer the question, obviously pinebushes can't defend his rationalization.

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You know this greedy child syndrome is one of the reasons companies have left North America,and the unions realised that so unions have had to change their way of thinking and become more business friendly.

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This is priceless, do you think maybe many companies that pulled up stake simply did so, so that they could make an even bigger profit off the backs of even poorer people without any resistance?

Come on FU and PB, give me a break... documentation of corporate greed, corporate explotation is everywhere and reports about poverty are a dime a dozen, read up eh.

Oh and answer the question, getting you corporate_friendly buddies to answer a question is like trying to get a raise from loblaws at ufcw contract time.

DOUGLE,

Post all you want but remember certain things.

1. You are NOT a Financial Planner, or Tax Advisor so stop advising people on housing costs.

2. You took advantage of Portability and Global Postings to benefit yourself but now you speak negatively about it. You are being hypocritical.

3. You wanted to see the Sobeys Milton Contract and the Sobeys Whitby Contract to compare. You did so and then talked out of the side of your mouth when you saw in black and white that UFCW negotiated a better deal than the CAW did with the same employer for the same work.

4. You say it it's ok for the CAW to make a deal to save 900 jobs at Navistar because those people have families to feed and need the work. However you don't take the same view with respect to UFCW making a deal to save 15,000 + jobs and many more future jobs from going non-union.

5. I changed my mind, you should post less and listen more.

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When you adopt the beliefs and values of your oppressors, you've internalized oppression. It's very hard to break out from under the yoke once that's happened.

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So basically anyone who has internalized "corporate mythology" couldn't answer the questions even if they wanted to? Geez that is sad.

I'm not sure, it could be entirely frustration, unable to freely express the facts or rationalize the facts, but whatever it is, it bleeds into all aspects of social behavior.

Whenever those internalized myths are challenged, it is always met with a diversion of sorts, things like personal attacks and throat lunging.

<I Speak Truth> why are you hiding behind various handles? How can you expect readers to take what you post seriously if you continue to do so?

That straw man has been addressed already.

Use the search.

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I do not spend time worrying about my worth in relation to the amount of money that is in the world.

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Good point, touche, I did infer that, tho it is not exactly where I was going.

Too often we hear "you are only a retail worker" or more specifically "non-skilled" and it is intentional without doubt. It is meant to demean our value.

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I figure if two things one all that money just recirculates round and round and it is only as valueable as the products it buys, the second thing is this if i food shelter and a little bit extra to have fun with why worry what the very rich have

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Again, this is not what my reference was to, instead I suggest that too many workers are not in this category and a large part of this is because we are accomplice in undervaluing the work they do.

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Remember this the more you have the more you have to lose.Keep life simple find something you enjoy besides telling others how miserable their lot is and you may find you are not as angry

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If you recognize anger, it is because I work beside many union members who deserve what you have and what I have, a decent simple life without struggling for food or rent. Yes that makes me angry and it is doublefound when these workers are union members and when the employer is flourishing.

Hey Dougle to tell you the truth if I can i will use the portability to go to ajax when it opens for two reasons one i lived not gar from there for awhile in pickering and have friends there second ajax is usually 30-45 min drive from the cottage country around the kawarthas alot of people commute from there to oshawa to work for the auto plant so why would i not want to do the same and get a retirement place payed off before i retire.Who knows some of our fellow co-workers who enjoy fishing may feel the same way, I do not know but i know i wouldn't want to take away either.

Was it scab labour or CN management doing their job?

For the canadian autoworkers buzz hargrove and the caw have done a good job to a point and one of the reasons for this is alot of the key decision makers for caw come from that field so they understand it and understanding the market you are in is very important when negiotating deals.
When it comes to the overall labour movement though the caw and buzz hargrove have done so much to undermine it that it will never recover in the western hemisphire.He has taken workers in canada the us and mexico and pitted them against each other he advertises canadian labour as the cheap alternative to the united states.
Buzz Hargrove has also recently through deal making with the liberals put greater strain on the working famalies in ontario, the liberals have announced plans to give financial breaks to any automakers willing to build in ontario.Now I understand the theory that give one big tax cut to a corporation and recover in taxes from the employees and the money they put into society, but until that money pours in the rest of us working right now foot the bill.Did the lberals do this out of the kindness of the hearts? No this was repayment for the money and work the caw and it's members did to get the liberals elected.
Buzz Hargrove has always seemed to have very close ties to politics and politicians, there were mummers of him being courted to run for the federal ndp leadership which he apparently declined, though i have a feeling not because of his lack of interest in politics but rather his realization that the bloc has better chance of being electing in canada than the ndp ever will.
Some will say that the reason he won't run or campaign for the ndp is he feels betrayed, but in reality it may have more to do with his own political ambitions the liberals give him the best chance to get into a winning party in canadian politics.Buzz Hargrove is a man campaigning don't believe me look at sid ryan a leader for cupe he also was very vocal on the news and in the paper denouncing this and that all cumulating in a run for politics when this failed the result he went back to doing his job keeping his as many members employed as possible getting as much in wages and benefits as possible.
So you have to excuse me if i do not wish to cotribute to buzz hargrove and his political ambitions with my union dues, but i would rather have a union that does it's job and is not just platform for someone politcal ambitions.

Door to door campaigning in key tory strongholds had no effect?
Paying for TV ads had no effect?
Urging strategic voting for the liberals had no effect?
Look to the first tory re-election campaign the unions targeted members of the party such as Dave Johnson who successfully stared down opseu and got him ousted from his seat and are proud of that fact.

Dougle a politician is a politician.His or her interest lay with whoever gives them the most money and the court of public opinion.But did I read right earlier do you own 2 homes one in cambridge and one in missauga?

Seems to me you have benefitted from ufcw contracts nicely then.Good for you keep it up.

So what do you want in the new one?
You know what his web site was supposed to be set up for people in ufcw to try and reform things but the real reason alot seem to come here is to whine and cry.You were given and will be given further oppertunities to give your input on the new contract, but you know what dougle you and others like you won't because it requires effort and itelligence. It easier for people like you to whine and look to someone else to do it.Weak language is a weak arguement i am yet to get one person to give me an example of how their former contract was better.We are about to enter into negiotations for a new contract and rather than offer solutions all you do is whine which tells me you have nothing to add could this be because you got all you want from the ufcw and don't give a damn.In all your post whenever it has been pointed out about something the ufcw gained for someone you scorned if it did not affect you personally ie portability and the $4 an hour raise for part timers.Everyone has been able to read your thoughts and see what you are about.

LOL intelligence is hard to spell and dummy isn't i wonder why?

I do not recall referring to anyone as a whiner before.The reason i did in this case was the oppertunity was extended to all of us in the union that would be affected by the new contract to put in our ideas for anything we wish to see in the new contract.But alot of people it seems could not be bothered rather all they did is complain about the current C.A.To me it seems very democratic for the union to supply sheets for members to put in their ideas, all that is required is some effort and thought.These indivuals did seem to even try they just threw their arms up they do not want soltions they must work for but rather they want someone to hold their hand and take care of them.I have no problems with different points of view but if your going to talk about wanting the best for everyone then do something about it when given the chance if you are not willing to do some work then stay quiet and do not distract those trying to do the job of improving things and quit misleading the inexperienced ones.Just because one indivual no longer needs a privilage right now enjoyed under the contract we have and the union we have does not mean he won't in the future or someone else very soon.Sorry if anyone took offense to my statement about whining it was not directed at all just those you refuse to work for the collective better and who choose to tear down those who do.FYI as bad as it to come here and call someone a whiner it is still better than printing off things said here and bringing them into the work place in an effort to agitate workers against workers leave the fights here, if something is informative great but anything personal such as someone blowing off steam should remain here.

Ah so you do not want democracy you want to be paid to think?

I am not attacking you if you read my what was posted after rv you would have read why.

I think maybe this quote may state it best
Absent any suggestion that the complainants have anything to add to the discussion (like an alternative other than the obvious one of fighting Loblaws), other than they disagree with the amendments, the members had nothing to say which could assist Local 1000A.
Source: http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onlrb/2003/2003onlrb16036.html

That may be the reason who knows

Answering questions with a question sounds like he doesn't have any answers bb.

Why start talking about a new CA when we haven't picked a union yet?

The choice of unions will come before the CA will. Perhaps that is more on people's minds.

[QUOTE]posted by bb:
The question for the third time is.... Why didnt members respond when asked for input?

The fact that they do not respond is indicative of not being heard or futility.

Members have a lot to add, and probably many very good proposals, all that a union has to do is ask.

In this case we have been asked, to all those complaining about our contract I ask them on the floor what would you change and have you suggested it.They are the ones choosing to stay quiet as far as adding anything to help themselves and fellow employees.

In fact since the beginning whenver i have asked questions of the former caw members how was their contract better all i get is better language, so i ask, how so?
The reply is usually silence, and that is all they ever seem to offer until it comes time to bash the ufcw.Maybe they are better at destruction than construction.
The simple fact is this the former caw members have never had a caw negiotated contract, they have the same the thing the rest of us have their ufcw contract benfits and wages (which you never hear them complain about as they have reached top rate they are estactic) on the one hand.In the other hand you have the promises and pipe dreams the caw has made in order to be elected.Well you know what, the pipe is for crack heads so i don't need the pipe.Give me the cold hard facts and I will make a decision.
As far as our discussion bb in regards to the RCSS deal yes there were other options but if the company was not willing to pursue that option then the union was forced to do what it had to.If your response was fine we will walk then where would you have been if the company stuck to it's guns?
Unemployed.Was the deal all that rotten in dollar and cents terms as far how many people now employed have had to take a wage reduction? If so how much?
Before you start on a new starting rate of minimum wage for most of us that is what we got when we started working for me that was around $4 not much but when you go from 0 it is alot.

Dougle do you think it would have mattered? Short term negative publicity to which they come out with, they are more than welcome at our new stores.Consumers shrug and go in and shop and Loblaws gets richer.What would you have done?

Does anyone have the e-mail address for the CAW's John Aman?

I have a couple of questions for him

Thanks

If you want to srike so bad bb why not quit your job go on welfare make a sign and go down to loblaws and picket the day away.If people do not like the wages they will either quit or refuse to work for loblaws.The loblaws will be forced to hire less desirable employees or have no work for them period or they will be forced to free up more money to attract and keep good employees.If things get bad enough for them they will approach the unoin and offer to increase wages or something to keep quality employees.

Sorry if my comments offended you. I have grown tired of hearing nothing but negative comments from people who have done nothing to try and make things work, yet who complain about everything.I know you are not part of this group at my workplace.

I have never refered to any of my fellow employees here as drunks or anything else, but if somebody does they may have reason so I will comment no further on this matter.

If those former kitchener employees who were caw had made an honest attempt at improving our work place with contributions of a positive nature ie taking advantage of the oppertunity to contribute to the new collective agreement rather than calling it a joke, i could sympathize with them but for quite alot of us we have watched things in the warehouse and willing to wait and see wait the ufcw has to offer in the new CA and have been repelled by what has happened with regards to the actions in this dispute over which union will provide repersentation.The caw supporters have called the ufcw members a weak membership, what have you done to strengthen it? So I have to ask what is your real objective a stong union or just getting your way and what you want?

Now we are getting somewhere here. I agree with both "bb" and "Fed Up" on one very important issue which has yet to be fully addressed and recognized.

bb, I agree with you when you say we must include all as brothers and sisters in the workplace. I am a firm believer in some things with respect to the UFCW, and Unions in general. I am willing to acknowledge the weaknesses and accept my share of the responsibility when it comes to working to improve those weaknesses. As "Fed Up" stated, change from within. The problem with those (CAW supporters) making the biggest noise about change within the Maple Grove facility is that not one of them has made an honest effort to be part of the solution. They have chosen to add to the problems. The CAW Head Office Leadership has done a terrible job of selecting people to assist them. Those have chosen people who demonstrate dishonesty, disrespect, no leadership skills, no communication skills.

"bb" you told "Fed Up"m that he was ill inormed about some of your own issues and beliefs. Well, by the same token you are greatly ill informed about the pure CAW supporters at Maple Grove. You would be ashamed of them if they were working side by side with you for a cause.

I mean, use of profanity, vulgarity, lack of respect for fellow workers, lack of respect for the Company they work for, lack of respect for their workplace, covering their bathroom with disgusting graffiti. Their parents, wives, girlfriends, children would be absolutley appalled and ashamed of them if they saw the way they act in their work environment.

Nothing you or anyone else says can change that. It is 100% true.

To conclude, I don't care what Union they support or represent, I don't condone what they do or the way they act. Never, and I mean never, would I want them as leaders, representatives of my Union in this or any workplace for that matter.

If this offended anyone tough that's the way it is. I dare anyone to prove otherwise.

Again sorry bb if I said anything to offend you.I am curious about what options you may have offered in the way of compromise to reduce immediate outflow of money for the company without permanantly loss wage?

I myself think giving employees who chose to the chance to recieve stock instead of wages would have been alot more palatable and profitable for the ones who could afford to do so.But like I said I would like to hear what you have to offer.

As per my disgust with the some of the caw supporters at maple grove, it is not the fact that they wish to vote for the caw it was the means soem have used to discredit the ufcw.One of the caw organizers in our warehouse was just a few months ago a ufcw steward who sat back and did aboustly nothing to defend people if it did not serve his purpose, i know as i got see this first hand as he did me dirty then said it was not his fault he was new.I had no steward training what so ever yet i was able to conduct my own investigation get witnesses to the incident in question and type out a report and submit it to the union who then in turn immediatly started looking into the matter, but i am not the only one who experienced things like this others have told me not getting defended being left on their own in front of management while the steward stood idly by.You know if this person was as passionate about defending his fellow employees who elected him as a steward as he is about getting the caw in maple grove he might have done some good and had some creditbility.My question to you caw supporters who served as stewards and sabotaged things whenever the chance arose if our union and contract was so bad why did you have to sabotage it?

Further if the caw is so great why does it upset you so if i or others expose the weaknesses or express our feelings with regards to this matter?

I wonder what are your real motives the collective interests or your own?

By the way do not be so hypocritical when you tell me to leave stuff off here from work when you bring things said on here into work.You know who i am talking to demon.

Oh and for those ufcw supporters in our warehouse getting upset with those who support the caw by verbal means is no good let us lead by example and show tolerence of all.

Fed up. I would have hoped that Both sides would have taken the high road and started talking about the Issues that suround MG instead of the propaganda that they spew out.

quote:

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By the way do not be so hypocritical when you tell me to leave stuff off here from work when you bring things said on here into work.

---

Your not alone it has come to my attention that I to have avid readers amoung the Grocery membership and have come under fire as well... well not to my face anyways. Don't take it personal your posting on a web site with public access.... It's no different then writing something in the papers. Some people have things at stake... Some people want to work for the union ie Spurs ,Reps, organizers, etc and have invested time with the UFCW in order to reach that goal. Same with the CAW supporters but within the CAW.

Right on BB

We are united, Local 1000A encompasses, the warehouses, a transport division, all Loblawas except 4, Kretchmar foods and more.

The stores pay by far the most dues, then the warehouse and then No Frills. If service levels were based on dues, the stores would see reps more often.

OUT OF CURIOSITY.....Is this web-site funded from the CAW?

Fedup... I don't agree with all the CAW positions, but If the membership wants a repost then we'll have a repost. It doesn't bother me any.

The drivers at Maple Grove already pick every year.

If I'm picking,then I'm picking. But I don't think so. I don't want days off on the weekend. I don't mind working afternoons done it before. I'm not worried about picking and for those who know me I could probably use a couple of days pickin.

I was reading a link Cupe Reformer posted and I came across this, does any of this sound familiar?

http://www.cawlocal1285.com/html/tt.html

Dougle

I am not sure what kind of seniority you have, when you include the transport division, where do you stand?
When we lose work to Ajax are you okay with being laid off in favour of these workers from the other DC's? Would you like to have the opportunity to go to another warehouse? Why or why not? Currently you have job security, are you going to tell me that you want to give it up.
thanks

Yea come on reebok we won't lose jobs, just bonuses, portability, wages and the strength in numbers we would have with 5 warehouses under one union.And those kids behind us will lose a better chance at full time having to wait for an opening at maple grove.But we may gain the chance for a two tier pay scale.

Morning All
I found the following open letter written regarding the raid of the seiu.Do any of these tatics sound familar.By the way it maybe just me but this whole thing did not sound like democracy but more llike a backrooom deal between caw organizers and seiu officiers.
http://www.labournet.net/world/0010/caw1.html

I thought this may be interesting too.

http://www.straightgoods.com/Solway/001030SEIU.shtml

quote:

---

posted by Dougle:
Questions about what the CAW will do when at MG will be provided durring the open peroid.

---

Dougle why are you so high on CAW...

-Listening to DeMoN too much (HK)?
-Have you actually looked at the Peterbourough contract?
-Did you know who was in charge of the last contract the workers in Kitchener had?
-Was John Aman in the picture then?
-Did you like the chance to move from Warehouse to Warehouse in the past 5 or 6 years?
-Other food distribution warehouses that have CAW contracts really does not look after or sometimes not reconize PT workers Why?
-Is Johnny E finally in rehab? ( sorry had to throw it in)
-What would of happened if the CAW had rights to MG and we had to come in?
-Do you think they would gave us any of our senority?
-Do you feel you can trust the CAW's local in Cambridge with there track record?
-If Hell freezes over and the CAW get into MG and 1000a warehouses closes ( Like Freemont and Pinebush ) how will effect your former Union brothers and sisters, former co-workers and friends?
-You stated you don't mind working weekends, How about your Co-workers that cant work weekends due to kids or something. How will they feel about you?

Start listening to Slic, He is one of the smartest guys I know when it comes to the Union issues.
He has studied everything when it comes to the CAW.
Please open your mind to change in the UFCW!

So dougle why not step up and look out for your fellow employees interest for a change and start serving as a steward?
Ane hey pinebush if we become caw join us but when you transfer you will be at the bottom of the list(ask those under the GA love agreement who had to transfer).
A question wht were kitchener caw pt employees paid 8/hr and ufcw employees at other warehouses paid 12/hr didn't you want your partime employees making a decent wage in kitchener?

Thank you dougle for your answer so the priviliges few 45 got full time what about the rest at that time?
What about those in the future that came along and the kids who could not afford to go full time while in school did not the caw owe them some thought too?
Again we see the caw looks after it's top senority people and screws the rest that has got to be great for worker solidarity.

On a side note did anyone run to management tattling when the ufcw office door was vandilized?

i am just wondering because a fellow employee was called in by management following a complaint for sticking a caw toque in his crotch.

Thank you. Demon.

So the part time was sacrificed for the dull time and transport.I have nothing against trying to get full time but again we see the problem with having transport under the same deal with the warehouse.Also what about the kids who could not work full time did they not deserve the raises.
By the way i never said i support anyone in work place harassment but where were you when the ufcw office door was being vandalized or our sin numbers were emailed out and did you turn yourself in for going after edelio for posting on here.

posted by Pinebushes_Scotty

quote:

---

Fed Up;
Even some workers at Pinbbush recieved the propaganda that the CAW mailed out, So from what I understand they have all 1000a information

---

Cancellation of a Union Card Ontario (Forms and Instructions)

"If you find that you cannot get your card back - and it may be hard, then you will have to let the union know that you no longer want to be represented by them and that you want your card cancelled. Do this immediately and do it in writing.

In our opinion, the best way to send your documents to the union is to fax them to the union office - faxing is fast and the confirmation page proves the union received them".

http://www.labourwatch.com/forms/cancel-en-nc-on.pdf

First LRB Decision calls LabourWatch "Neutral"
http://www.labourwatch.com/email/newsletter-vol-2-issue-3.html

Shouldn't the union members employed at Maple Grove know that they can cancel the CAW membership cards which they have signed if they change their minds?

http://www.labourwatch.com/forms/cancel-en-nc-on.pdf

I have not had a chance yet go over or hear any contarct proposols as i was not at work wed or thurs but when i asked guys on the floor evryone was very happy with what the goal seems to be.

I have question befoe i go to bed though dougle what is most important to you a fair workplace where we enjoy peace between workers or getting the caw in?

It's not that I would compare contracts UFCW to CAW. It's what they got and lost in respect to thier last contract. So looking at the UFCW because thats the one we all know. We lost a great deal in 94 major concessions and yes they Co played a good hand and won with the help of buy outs and intimidation, In the four years after in 1998 the PT and only top rate FT got $4 an hour, seems that the UFCW also only care for their top rate people as well, And the guy's on progression which is 5 years, lost cola, premiums, and twenty- five cents. and we got the MG deal. So in the last ten years:

Lost: $4/h but gained it back 4 years later.
Lost: Double time after 2 hours of overtime.
Lost: Free benifits instead of the 2%.
I think we only gained MG and some portability. But then again this benifits the Co and some members.

Theirs more guy's just ask anyone who has more then 10 years in they will tell ya.

If I remember correctly the Peterbouro plant got a pay raise.
So Slic if you could. Please, could I get the previous CA and the New CA for peterbouro as well as the CA pre 94 for the UFCW. Wouldn't that be a better why of looking at things?

I have yet to get a real answer on why the CAW is the better Union for Maple Grove. The UFCW negotiated a deal, that provides my family and many others like it, an excellent way of life. There is not another Collective Agreement in this business that stands up to the current agreement at Maple Grove. So tell me again why we should get another Union. It seems clear to me, as the provider for my family, I want to be able have the best options in front of me. Its all about how I am able to take care of my family. The UFCW is giving me the best oppotunity to do this! I shouldn't need explain this as I am living, as are all the workers at Maple Grove.
We enjoy a healthy way of life. Why would I give this up?
When you say there is only 60 UFCW supporters, that would be wishfull thinking. I count 106 on night shift grocery alone.
Thanks

Yesterday I was told under the caw maple grove would become it's own local that is how the caw does things would be in control we would vote in our own people for everything.My question is if this is true how much are union dues going up? Second if they do this every where please explain this to me

Units

CAW, Local 414 is a province wide local Union with 14,000 members in workplaces across Ontario.

Area 1 - A&P Drug Store Toronto

Area 1 - Able Atlantic Scarborough

Area 1 - Indigo Book Store Toronto

Area 1 - 20 Vic Management Scarborough
Chairperson
Jason Groeneveld

Area 1 - 20 Vic Managment Toronto
Chairperson
Megan Cameron

Area 1 - 407 ETR Concession Woodbridge
Chairperson
Richard Lee

Area 1 - A&P Food Stores Brampton

Area 1 - Aramark Services Erindale Campus Mississauga
Chairperson
Gladys Valerie

Area 1 - Food Basics Stores Brampton
Unit Chairperson
Grant Anderson

Area 1 - Food Basics Stores Toronto

Area 1 - New Dominion Stores Newmarket

Area 1 - New Dominion Stores Richmond Hill

Area 1 - New Dominion Stores Thornhill

Area 1 - New Dominion Stores Toronto
Chairperson
Ian Cameron

Area 1 - No Frills Stores Toronto

Area 1 - Omni Facility Services Brampton

Area 1 - Sav-A-Centre Stores Mississauga
Unit Chairperson
Angelo DiCaro

Area 1 - Sav-A-Centre Stores Toronto
Unit Chairperson
Scott Hitchman

Area 1 - Sincere Trading Toronto
Unit Chairperson
Kevin Soo-Yeol Lee

Area 1 - Valu Mart Stores Mississauga

Area 1 - Valu Mart Stores Toronto

Area 2 - A & P Warehouse (part-time) Toronto

Area 2 - A&P Warehouse (full-time) Toronto
Unit Chairperson
Tony Falcone

Area 2 - Associated Toronto Taxi Co-Op Toronto
Chairperson
Gary Steadman

Area 2 - Autostock Mississauga
Chairperson
Nick Tassone

Area 2 - Berlon Canada Woodbridge
Chairperson
Steven Smith

Area 2 - Canteen of Canada (Food & Vending) Toronto

Area 2 - Compass Group A & P Toronto

Area 2 - Compass Group Select Services Toronto
Chairperson
Raymond Walters

Area 2 - Neil Wycik Toronto
Chairperson
Megan Tallon

Area 2 - Royal Doulton Toronto
Chairperson
Paul Norris

Area 3 - A & P Food Stores Orangeville
Chairperson
Ralph Kenny

Area 3 - A & P Food Stores Oakville
Chairperson
Lois Dumesnil

Area 3 - A&P Food Stores Milton
Unit Chairperson
Jennifer Trischler

Area 3 - Canteen of Canada (Vending) Hamilton
Chairperson
Ronald English

Area 3 - Compass Group Ford Oakville
Chairperson
Archie Belliveau

Area 3 - Compass Group Maplehurst Milton
Chairperson
Gladys Carlson

Area 3 - Food Basics Stores St. Catharines
Chairperson
Darlene Peever

Area 3 - Grand & Toy Hamilton
Chairperson
Selwyn Daniel

Area 3 - National Grocers Cash & Carry Niagara Falls

Area 3 - New Dominion Stores Mississauga
Chairperson
Chuck Milson

Area 3 - No Frills Stores Niagara Falls
Chairperson
Mary Rotilla

Area 3 - No Frills Stores Oakville
Chairperson
Gordon Grinyer

Area 3 - Superfresh Stores Brantford
Chairperson
Darlene Boothroyd

Area 3 - The Barn Store Hamilton
Chairperson
Christine Connor

Area 4 - A & P Food Stores London
Chairperson
Deanne Kaszowski

Area 4 - Aramark Services 3-M London
Chairperson
Kimberley Lewis

Area 4 - Aramark Services Cami Ingersoll
Chairperson
Betty Anne Jacques

Area 4 - Aramark Services G.M. Woodstock

Area 4 - Autostock Kitchener
Chairperson
Mike Beesley

Area 4 - Autostock London

Area 4 - C.A.A. Travel Agency & Office St. Thomas
Chairperson
Linda Kasza-Shelley

Area 4 - Cadillac Fairview Corporation Kitchener
Chairperson
Markus Mann

Area 4 - Canadian Automobile Association Simcoe

Area 4 - Canteen of Canada Food & Vending London

Area 4 - Compass Group Eurest Talbotville
Chairperson
Linda Travers

Area 4 - Compass Group Fanshawe London
Chairperson
Susan Rickwood

Area 4 - Compass Group Kelloggs London
Chairperson
Gail Doyle

Area 4 - East Huron Poultry Dublin
Chairperson
John Adam

Area 4 - London Humane Society London
Chairperson
Lucinda Bohan

Area 4 - Martin Building & Maintenance Kitchener
Chairperson
Sandra Stuebing

Area 4 - N. Tepperman Office London

Area 4 - N. Tepperman Sales London
Chairperson
William Stevenson

Area 4 - N. Tepperman Warehouse London
Chairperson
Bill Vowles

Area 4 - National Grocers Cash & Carry St. Thomas

Area 4 - No Frills Stores Aylmer
Chairperson
Nancy Geraci

Area 4 - Price Chopper Store London
Chairperson
Kathy Anger

Area 4 - Southwest Middlesex Glencoe
Chairperson
John Stevenson

Area 4 - Wendell Motor Sales Kitchener
Chairperson
Blake Luelo

Area 5 - Can Can Food & Vending & Office Windsor
Chairperson
Michel Morin

Area 5 - Can Can Ford Essix Engine Windsor
Chairperson
Sheila Gibbs

Area 5 - Can Can G.M. Windsor
Chairperson
Liz Nutter

Area 5 - Compass Group Navistar Chatham
Chairperson
Edwin Watson

Area 5 - Food Basics Stores Chatham
Chairperson
Terrance Meechem

Area 6 - A & P Food Stores Oshawa
Chairperson
Carol Knapp

Area 6 - Aramark Services Chrysler Ajax
Chairperson
Carol McEachern

Area 6 - Aramark Services Lear Seating Whitby
Chairperson
Terri Weir

Area 6 - Brown's Fine Food Administration Oshawa

Area 6 - Brown's Fine Food Cafeteria Oshawa
Chairperson
Mary Dumoulin

Area 6 - Brown's Fine Food Vending Oshawa
Chairperson
Andrew Palmateer

Area 6 - City Wide Taxi Dispatch Oshawa
Chairperson
Sherry Wilkins

Area 6 - Compass Group Acsys Technology Oshawa

Area 6 - National Grocers Cash & Carry Lindsay
Chairperson
Trevor Junkin

Area 6 - National Grocers Cash & Carry Peterborough
Chairperson
Ed Costello

Area 6 - National Grocers Office Peterborough
Chairperson
Fae Murney

Area 6 - National Grocers Warehouse Peterborough
Chairperson
Rob MacDonald

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Ajax

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Barrie
Chairperson
Peter Smith

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Bradford
Chairperson
Alan Sheridan

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Cobourg
Chairperson
Andrea Copeland

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Oshawa
Chairperson
Susan Harris

Area 6 - No Frills Stores Whitby
Chairperson
Josie Raffaele

Area 6 - Sav-A-Centre Stores Cobourg
Chairperson
Dave Huggins

Area 6 - Sav-A-Centre Stores Pickering
Chairperson
Kevin Butler

Area 6 - Sysco Food Services Peterborough
Chairperson
Brad Goodfellow

Area 6 - The Real Canadian Wholesale Club Whitby

Area 6 - Trent News Cobourg

Area 6 - Valu Mart Stores Lindsay
Chairperson
Suzanne Burnett

Area 6 - Viceroy Homes Port Hope
Chairperson
Gregory Millar

Area 7 - Belron (L.O.F. Glass) Ottawa
Chairperson
Alain Constantineau

Area 7 - Canadian Automobile Association Ottawa
Chairperson
Joe Fitzpatrick

Area 7 - Canadian Federation of Nurses Union Ottawa
Unit Chairperson
Linda Sidney

Area 7 - Food Basics Store Ottawa
Init Chairperson
Clifford Sayer

Area 7 - HDS Retail North America Ottawa

Area 7 - Leishman Book Store Ottawa

Area 7 - Loeb Canada Arnprior
Chairperson
Cheryl Poisson

Area 7 - Loeb Canada Capital Rideau Ottawa
Chairperson
Bob Therien

Area 7 - Loeb Canada Convent Glen Gloucester
Chairperson
Alexander Rogg

Area 7 - Loeb Canada Glebe Ottawa
Chairperson
Keith Wood

Area 7 - Loeb Canada Lincoln Heights Ottawa
Chairperson
Kevin Righetto

Area 7 - Ottawa Neighbourhood Services Ottawa

Area 7 - Pharma Plus Drug Stores Ottawa
Chairperson
Ann Adams

Area 7 - Superfresh Store Ottawa
Chairperson
J. C. Tremblay

Area 7 - Valumart Store Alfred
Chairperson
Diane Stethem

Area 7 - Your Independent Grocer Store Carleton Place
Chairperson
Terry Harron

Area 7 - Your Independent Grocer Store Ottawa

Area 7 - Your Independent Grocer Store Renfrew
Chairperson
Debbie Droeske

Area 8 - Cornwall Warehousing Ltd. Cornwall
Chairperson
Gilles Burelle

Area 8 - Food Basics Store Cornwall
Chairperson
Nancy Tilley

Area 8 - Food Basics Stores Kingston
Chairperson
Flora Alkenbrack

Area 8 - No Frills Store Napanee
Chairperson
Tanya Marie Laird

Area 8 - S & R Department Store Kingston
Chairperson
Donalda Adams

Area 8 - Sav-A-Centre Store Brockville
Chairperson
Ada McKenney

Area 8 - Valumart Store Morrisburg
Chairperson
Vital Barrette

Area 8 - Your Independent Grocer Trenton
Chairperson
Gwen Sprenkles

http://www.cawlocal.ca/414/units.asp

Why call up this info is being told as fact at maple grove so why not ask these question at least 3 caw suppoters comer and posts so why not answer please.

Fed Up:
I sent you an e-mail to your Yahoo account, You have me mixed up with someone else.

Memo To: DeMoN
Subject: John Aman and Tom Rooke

First off, John Aman, Organizer. That is an oxymoron. Raiding is not to be confused with Organizing. Those who are true to the Labour Movement organize, those aren't raid.

Now on to your earlier post.

Why would anyone seeking straightforward, honest, non-hypocrytical dialogue and answers call John Aman? You may as well contact Walt Disney, his stories are pure fiction also but at the very least they are entertaining.

Having read the recent propoganda distributed by the CAW, using names and addresses they obtained using very questionable methods, I was left bored out of my mind, and that takes some doing for me to be bored. I mean paragraph after paragraph of HALF-STORIES. I wonder how many times he fell asleep writing that incoherent blabber. I would hazzard a very educated guess that only the most die-hard CAW supporters could possibly manage to read the entire four (4) page diatribe. Certainly no one else could manage to get past the first two (2) paragraphs without rolling it up and tossing it into the same place where it was conceived, the garbage.

P.S. I will say this ... every time I have called Mr. Aman I make his day. He loves talking with me. What I do is I get myself some popcorn, put my feet up, and listen to him, just as I would do when I watch Walt Disney movies.

Demon-"Instead of asking question here that might not get answers, why don't you call the CAW organizers. and get the real deal!"

Demon,,c'mon now.You ARE the CAW organizer for the Grove.Remember all those private meetings with John Aman you and C.M. have been having for the last like year or something.

Inside the system eh? Gotta fix it first in order to use it properly.

Boy doesn't this sound familar and gives a something to look forward too:
CLAC should remember the working women's slogan: Equal Work for Equal Pay.' This 'friendly' reminder came from the Canadian Auto Workers union (CAW) as its representatives tried to raid two groups of CLAC-represented employees at the Caressant Care Nursing Home and the adjoining retirement home in Woodstock, Ontario earlier this year.

With the slogan, the CAW focused its attention on the high school students employed at Caressant Care. CLAC's collective agreement provided that the employer pay students $10.61 per hour-better than any fast food joint and better than the rates earned by students in many CAW-organized manufacturing facilities but not as much as the regular staff. In most nursing homes, students are not paid the same rates as adults, for obvious reasons. They have limited availability, limited experience, and are generally short-term employees.

But the promise, made in a CAW newsletter, was based on parity for students with regular employees. The nursing home employs as many as 50 students, almost half the bargaining unit. Few students anticipate a long career in the facility; they are earning spending money or saving for post-secondary education. The promise of a two or three dollar-an-hour increase was tantalizing enough to cloak a reality which was clear to others: if the home has to pay adult wages to high school students, the home will hire adults, not students.

Of course, the students weren't the only ones with high expectations. The CAW promised that no union dues would be paid until it negotiated a contract. It also left workers with the impression that it could force the company to remove difficult managers.

When it came to voting day, it was apparent that the Caressant Care retirement home workers had their doubts about the tall promises, as they voted to remain with CLAC. However, a majority of the student-dominated nursing home group couldn't resist the glitter of promised gold.

'They saw the money that factories are getting,' laments 'Ted,' a long-term employee in the nursing home. But there was a rude awakening soon after the vote. 'The CAW kept charging dues.'

When employees complained, they were told there had been no promise that dues wouldn't be deducted. Finally, after pressure from employees, CAW stopped the deductions-but didn't refund what had already been taken.

Already unhappy about the dues, employees were further upset when it came to the proposals meeting. The meeting notice did not clearly set out the election process for the bargaining committee, resulting in nominees being rejected by the CAW on the basis of a process which was unknown to employees. Even worse, the election of stewards was 'secretive,' according to Ted.

While proposals were formulated, their contents have been withheld from the employees. 'With CLAC, at least we had update meetings,' says Ted. Employees have noticed a different level of service, too. 'We lost experienced stewards. Now people who want legitimate grievances filed are turned away by the stewards, who are acting as judge and jury.'

Ontario's nursing home industry is a tough place to work, and employees sometimes want to take their workplace frustrations out on their union. Ted has a word of advice for them: 'If you have a beef about something, talk to CLAC. Ask for more information. If you still don't like it, run for bargaining committee or steward.'

Whether they have second thoughts or not, Caressant Care workers are stuck with the CAW until the end of their next collective agreement. Given the slow progress to date, that might be awhile. Ted and many of his co-workers, however, remain determined to move back to CLAC.

And what about the 'equal work for equal pay' slogan, repeated so often to the students of Caressant Care? Although little information has been given to bargaining unit employees about the CAW's bargaining proposals, Ted says, 'I don't believe that proposal is even in there

CLAC gives me the willies!!! And it itches.

DeMoN,

Do you actually LoL when you post messages here. Did you and your sidekick try to intimidate any young kids in the warehouse today or did you rest. Why don't you and your sidekick try intimidating me when you see me in there. Or you could run to management instead as is the norm. For a group of people who constantly complain and whine that the UFCW is "in bed with the Company" you guys sure have a close following in the current Management team at Maple Grove. My motto ... "one by one".

Now you better get some shut eye and prepare yourself for another afternoon of lying like a mother to those young impressionable kids on the floor. But let me tell you, you have underestimated those kids, keep doing it.

Which one's the Skipper cause that makes the other ...

Easy. Like Triumph The Insult Comic Dog ... "I Kid I Kid"

This site is too much fun.

Here are some exerpts from the caw home page on the merger and what tom collins and the other "leaders" got themselves
Part of our commitment during the merger discussions was that Tom Collins would work out of my office as an assistant to the president responsible for working with the RWC division. Dan Garvey will be the director of the RWC division.

The results are as follows; in favour 81 delegates representing 20,929, against 8 delegates representing 1,680 members. The merger with the auto workers is approved."

Port Elgin, Nov 1, 1999

With the announcement of the vote outcome, the Retail Wholesale Canada union leadership officially merged its twenty three thousand members with the CAW. Prior to the vote, Retail Wholesale Canada president Tom Collins recommended the merger to his leadership gathered at the CAW Family Education Centre in Port Elgin

It is funny how the way the decision made here is similar to the one the ufcw did with the RCSS deal the one evryone is screaming is undemocratic.

I am not into going after my fellow employees for wanting clearer language and better understanding that is great.When I look at things we have good wages,benfits,portability and strength in numbers when it comes to bargining with the exception of 2 warehouses all national grocers warehouses are ufcw 1000a.

As far as the question as what happens if loblaws wants are wages cut and the union agrees, there are ways to deal with that IF that happens.On the other hand we could ask what happens IF the company asks the caw for the same they say no way so the company starts lay off to save money?

None of us has the ablity to foretell the future so we work with the here and now, as far as issues affecting some in the warehouse they are being addressed.We have to stop biting at each other espicially about who we are going to give our money too we need to look at what will be the best for all of us.

The ufcw did the samething the caw did repersentitive votes.The divisional officiers were asked to vote in a ballot.

If that is true about the caw decertifying in peterborough and the warehouse going ufcw that would be great imagine going to the bargining table with peterborough,erin mills,surveyor road,freemont,pinebush,maple grove.Our fellow workers in peterborough could enjoy the benefits of the contract and give us all added bargining power.

So what is the deal bb and anyone else for that matter, if the ufcw does something "undemocratic" their the devil but when the caw does it well everyone can see why they did, I have heard this arguement so many times now it is sickening.Both unions do things that upset their members, this has been shown time and again.Both union have a way of controlling what their members do when they need too.What this comes down too is what will be the best for all the employees at maple grove and the other warehouses to.You know the isolationist attitude of the caw failed in the auto industry.If they had kept apart of the uaw and then when nafta was signed organized their mexican co-workers the auto companies would have had to listen.But now they play off each other based on nationalism.Do we want the same thing to happen to us being pitted warehouse against warehouse?

The reason is not the issue, the fact that it happened is the issue and because the Caw or anyone else might or has does not justify what the UFCW did.

FED UP, would you have done the same thing if you were the President of OUR union?

Pinebush...same question would you allow a vote by the membership in the same circumstances as the RCSS deal?

Slic, do you believe in an active involved membership on all major issues, does democracy matter?

Same questions, Dougle, Demon and anyone who cares to put their two cents in.

Remember the silent majority is watching and reading.

DeMoN,

I son't care if you think this is personal. After all you have attacked everyone in a sneaky way on here at one point or another.

Who writes your garbage. You are the king of copy paste. Do you get that straight from John Aman. Like Reebok said earlier, how would you know what's going on given all the time you spend in the office whining and crying, and when you are on the floor you are doing nothing but lying your ass off like a mother. Your comments to edelio are as irrelevant as your sidekick Pasty. Please explain what language in that A & P agreement nullifies the fact that Appendix B gives the Company the right to temporarily transfer employees not only to another shift but to another warehouse. Your "out of context" comment is as lame as your attempts to intimidate young workers. You actually tell guys that they will get a hat or shirt IF they sign a Union card. Again, come and intimidate me sometime, PLEASE.

Question: How come every person I have talked to that said you represented them during your time as a Steward said in no uncertain terms that you were flat out incompetent, and way over your head.

I have always wondered what it must be like to be trapped inside a wet paper bag. nSo why don't you enlighten us.

P.S. I suppose when you passed around that A & P agreement you didn't think anyone would actually read it. To quote from the Lion King ... "wrong again"

BB I would have done it different. It would have been my responcabliity to investiagte and verify the infomation that the Co gave me as well as come up with other options to combat this so called Walmart threat and get alternative solutions.
I would have take'in it to the membership regardless and let them know the deal. It's THEIR future it should always be THEIR choice. People are not stupid. As some union officials think.

Does a Co have to bargin in good faith mid contract?

Mr Slic, What are the reasons you fell contribute to the " lack of interest"?

Also,

quote:

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improve our weaknesses, maintain our strengths, propose positive changes, and help implement such changes.

---

What would you consider strengths, and weaknessess that need to be addressed.

How do you purpose to get those positive changes when you bad mouth, and belittle the people that would be there, after... if there is an after, to help?

It's not that people want to tear down the UFCW at MG, they just want them out.
Your whole statement.....It sounds a little like a campaign speech to me. Have your eyes on an elected office slic?

To all persons:

I've heard the views of the CLC from the CAW point of view. I would be interested in hearing from others Their views.

The RWDSU affiliated with the UFCW International in 1993 except for the 25,000 members from Ontario who went with the Steelworkers. I wonder if the UFCW asked all the 1,680 members if they wanted to affiliate with the UFCW? or Did they just ask Robin McArthur?

http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/archive/murdock.htm

Who is currently a Canadian Director. I wonder if thats his son that has a title of international rep?

http://www.rwdsu.ca/contactus.html

In response Fed Up, I have not been affected yet.

But I am absolutly sure that I will be. More importantly because I am not affected now does that mean that I should not worry or care?

When I think about the whole new RCSS deal, I am greatly affected by the downward spiral of the wage scale at Loblaws, but not immediatly. What will the next negotiations be like with RCSS in place? Will I, through our union, have any bargaining power? Is there any solidarity? Will people with no future at Loblaws, minimum wage earners with no benefits, walk a picket line so we can get wage increases?

That is the real crime, our Union is destoying itself.
It is critical to bring solidarity back. Educate the membership, encourage participation, fight for worker rights and the most important thing empower the people. When people feel valued and appreciated by the Union as members they will be solid in the face of this onslaught against their wages.

Here is something a little "out there". With everything Loblaws does to be innovative why couldnt they put daycares into the stores for the staff and possibly the public? What would the reward be for the gesture of loyalty? Would it come back in happy employees and goodwill?
The most important thing to all of us..everywhere....is our families.

quote:

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With everything Loblaws does to be innovative why couldnt they put daycares into the stores for the staff and possibly the public? What would the reward be for the gesture of loyalty? Would it come back in happy employees and goodwill?
The most important thing to all of us..everywhere....is our families.

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This is a topic worthy of it's own thread.

Here's something "out there" too, why haven't we upped the value of stay at home parents?

Maybe government funding would be better spent encouraging stay at home daycare and maybe employers should be required to support stay home daycare for our future citizens.

How does it make sense to create and fund program after program which deal with the documented negatives of latch key kids?

Why shouldn't an employer be responsible to a community for the well being of that community from whence it draws it's profit?

Isn't it always about indivual feelings.Your upset because you feel the union will not listen to you, they did not allow you to vote.
Isn't that pretty much what this whole site is about people upset because they feel they are not being heard and they feel they have a contribution to make?
As far as screaming and tearing down we have never met you in person so I can not speak about your nature.But I have to ask how do you feel you contributing to the betterment of the union now?

Dougle wrote:

"Mr Slic, what are the reasons you fell contribute to the 'lack of interest'?"

Slic says:

I can in no way address that. That is an enormous question for which I don't believe any Union has an answer for, at least not yet.

Dougle wrote:

"What would you consider strengths, and weaknessess that need to be addressed.?"

We have strength in numbers if we can utilize it. Our other strengths include finances, people resources, educational resources. Our weaknesses include our Steward base in general. We ALL need, as a membership in any given location to do a much better job of electing our Stewards, taking the process far more seriously than we do. We need to hold Stewards more accountable for their actions also. We need to be more visible as a Union, we need to work on processes to expedite the grievance procedure, while at the same time not moving so fast that we overlook key items in the process. These are just some ideas of course, but there are many more that I can think of and I am sure others can think of as well.

Dougle wrote:

"How do you propose to get those positive changes when you bad mouth, and belittle the people that would be there, after... if there is an after, to help?"

Slic says:

Please don't take everything so personal Dougle. Open your eyes a little. There is a whole world out there besides this little Open Forum here. Don't be so insecure that you take certain things that are stated as "belittling". I have given you every opportunity to discuss things in person but you have chosen to hide behind this Open Forum. On Friday I invited you in to chat but you chose to keep walking. As for the other person you feel I may have belittled, I will apologize the minute he stops trying to intimidate young employees in the warehouse, the minute he stops LYING to young employees. And don't even open your mouth about that. He has been LYING to young emmployees, period, end of story.

Dougle wrote:

"It's not that people want to tear down the UFCW at MG, they just want them out."

Slic says:

Don't be a hypocrite. Please show some backbone. Be honest with yourself. You are a part of a group attempting to tear down the UFCW Local 1000a. And we will fight you all the way on that. Count on it.

Dougle wrote:

"Your whole statement ... It sounds a little like a campaign speech to me. Have your eyes on an elected office Slic?"

Slic says:

My whole statement was a response to a question posed by "bb". It is sad that once AGAIN, you show your true colours always looking for the worst in what people say. If you feel it is a campaign speech than so be it. As for where my eyes are, let me tell you something brother. One, my eyes, unlike some people's are NOT green with envy. Didn't your parents ever tell you that ENVY KILLS. My position has always been the same my whole life. Just do things to the best of your ability, try to do the right things, and the rest will take care of itself. If you ever had me represent you in any capacity as a representative of the union you can rest assured you would be in the most capable of hands. That is NOT bragging, that is NOT arrogance. That is capable confidence. And isn't that what we all want as members?

Now I know you want me to apologize for some things, but do you also want me to apologize for being able to write, being able to speak, being able to comprehend, being able to apply, being able to interact well with people IN PERSON ?

Please let me know, let us all know.

And finally, stop being a hater.

I am wondering about all the complaining about losses in the 90's does anyone remember the recission?
The best job i could get coming out of high school was flipping burgers.What short memories we have or is it a case of no matter what happens in the rest of the world I should be getting everything I want?

No what I was saying was everyone suffered in the 90's people went bankrupt like crazy the bottom fell out of the market businesses and homes were loss.As far as thinking I should be happy if I make six because another makes four, you knwo the atittude of my life may be bad but it could be worse carried me through some dark times.

May I ask a question Dougle

What happen IF the caw wins and in two years your not happy?

Do you think all the caw organziers will do anything to try and make you happy?

You know I want to know why the caw people never ever talk about the down side or even admit to the down side of joining the caw.I mean even the most staunch ufcw supporter will readily admit things are not perfect but is willing to try and fix them.

The caw will not be heaven no matter what they promise there are no gaurentees they will deliver.Their foundation will be the ufcw contract, they will alway have to look to the ufcw when negiotating with loblaws.

I have to say I really do admire Fed Up's ability to reply everywhere, anywhere, anytime in this forum with a passionate, tireless, undying defence of the UFCW union.

You must get an email/page/cellphone call every time someone makes a "negative" comment about the UFCW.

As a UFCW member for almost 20 years (not a Loblaw employee) you almost make me feel like I must be in some sort of a cult.

(If there ever was a cult of mediocrity, as opposed perhaps to a cult of personality, we may be in it.)

Has the UFCW union affected me negatively personally? No, it has not. I am fairly compensated for the work I perform.

However, I am thankful that I do not have any children working for the same employer as me, for their prospects would not be as positive.

I believe, with the two-tier pay/benefit system so popular for so many years with the UFCW---and yes, increasingly the CAW and likely with other unions---many workers have been sold out before they have even entered the workplace.

I feel that it is unfair that existing workers are "sold" contracts on the basis that it does not affect them, just everyone that is hired after them, people that are not yet even in the workplace. This happened in my workplace, and some 6-8 years later, it has really come back to haunt us, even though the contracts were just barely ratified.

Now I find myself, against my better judgement, religiously following the myriad of meandering tributaries of obsessvive/compulsive, offensive/defensive UFCW/CAW threads here in this forum.

There seems to be a common optimism that the upcoming contract negotiations at MG will go a long way to solve many problems there. As an outsider, it is difficult to understand why the Loblaw companies may be seen to be willing to make any reasonable offers and instead, based on retail contracts, will be demanding concessions---or at least match those inferior CAW contracts.

I really do hope that things work out well in the MG workplace. I work in a similar, although much smaller workplace, where our contract is up at the end of this year.

I don't personally advocate CAW vs. UFCW. Whatever the union, we have to put a stop to the two-tier pay/benefit system.
In my opinion, it will be the demise of us all if we don't.

Actually one of my reason for weighing on this whole caw ufcw issue is because of workers futures.One of the points I have defended is the portablity this allows for quicker part time to full time employment for employees wishing to do so.I have spoken to people in kitchener who have told they had to wait 5 and 6 years for full time because there was no other warehouse to go to.We have no two tier wages at Maplerove or any DC that I know of.
The other reason I have decided to get involve is I have watched and listened to the reasons some people want the caw in and it has nothing to do with it being a better union as far as democracy goes it has to do with a group of employees wanting senority taken away from another group of employees and given to them but it does not end there because when I said I would do everything in my power to help them with what I could I get it is not enough.Here is the progression-
UFCW bargins get employees in the local first choice at jobs at any new DC they build.
Maple Grove opens swallowing up other DC's UFCW 1000a members get their choice of the first jobs
Employees from other warehouses come on as their warehouse close those with day one senority are asked if they are willing to dove to dove tail the senorit and give up senority as far in warehouse choice of new jobs as they become avalaible and vacations by dove tailing their senority alot who came from other warehouses enjoyed nice raises also.
Now the union will be going for those employees from other warehouses to have full senority from when they started full time with the company or their old union dates to be able to carry that with them to any warehouse in which they choose to go. Some of those who remain over have already stated they are willing to surrender their day one senority as far as down grades go if it will mean peace and keeps us enjoying the benefits of being ufcw.
Now on the floor I hear that is not good enough we want a rebid why should they(day one) have the jobs they do.
My question is when is it enough for these caw pushers and supporters?
What is next it is not fair that another person with maybe 10 years less senority makes the same as you are we going to see the same two wage system they had at kitchener?
Where does this end if it is really all about the best for everyone why not be happy for what some other people were able to get give credit to ufcw for getting it's members good jobs and take advantage of the new parts of the warehouse as they open to get other positions for yourselves or days off or shifts whatever it is.
Your upset with the union because they would not go back on the deal it made on behalf of it's members and that it made with it's members, doesn't that show integity?
Isn't that what you want from your union?
Did the caw show the same consideration to it's members who were forced to go from one warehouse to another where did they fit in senority wise, choice of job wise, choice of vacations?
I hope this provides why I respond to the threads in favour of the caw.

It is very hard to compare the US struggle and the Canadian struggle between companies and employees.In Canada we enjoy a good health care system so that is never a concern for us in bargining wether we are poor or rich we get care as our turn comes.To the working men and women of america unions are forced to also try and get employers to provide health insurance which has to make bargining even more difficult.No matter the union it should always act in the best interest of it's members.It is always easy to bash the haves and those in positions that put them in the spotlight.
Again I am going to say this unions are made up of imperfect people subject to the desires of imperfect people.I support the ufcw at my place of work because right now they are the best union for all of us, we have a chance to improve things in our contract now and some of us are willing and working to improve things for everybody.

quote:

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In Canada we enjoy a good health care system so that is never a concern for us in bargining wether we are poor or rich we get care as our turn comes.

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Yeah well don't sit back in your recliner yet FU and hold on to your canadian dream really tightly. It seems gordo has plans.

Check this out and pass it out.

quote:

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The Gordon Campbell Liberals plan to sell off the Medical Services Plan and PharmaCare to either IBM or Maximus - both American multi-national corporations - by August 31.

The government will give an American-owned corporation access to private records on every British Columbian. This includes health treatment, pharmacy, income tax, mental health and criminal records, as well as records from the ministries of Children and Family Development and Human Resources.

A New York expert on the new USA Patriot Act says this could even give the FBI access to our private medical record.

The Patriot Act allows the FBI to demand corporations secretly hand over medical records and other personal information of innocent people. And U legal precedents suggest even if the information is held by a Canadian subsidiary, the American parent company could be required to hand it over.

Our personal medical information should not be made available to private corporations that don't answer to our privacy laws. It should remain in the care of public employees who are bound by an oath of office to keep it confidential.

For more information and to sign the petition,
petitiononline.com

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Dougle,

There is no need for apologies. This is an Open Forum. You see here is the difference. No matter the angle a certain few take their shots. But when they get hit back, suddenly they cry foul. Go back and look, not once have I cried about shots I got hit with. We all deliver them and we all take them so stop trying to circle the wagons.

Now as for what you call some "Organizer's BS" let's see if you are talking about any of the following:

1. Trainers - using their position to organize for the CAW instead of concentrating on proper training to help new hires succeed.

2. CAW Organizers - blatantly lying and promising very unreasonable items.

3. CAW Organizers - telling young employees they must sign the Union card to get a hat.

4. CAW Organizers - telling young employees that if they sign a card they can get union info in the mail. That is NOT what the card is for my friend. Why aren't they honest?

5. CAW Organizers - physically handling employees and using marker to write on his shirt.

6. Finally Dougle, why don't CAW organizers explain to people why they want the card signed? If you want to be democaratic shouldn't you be giving these employees the choice?

Is that what you meant by BS?

Hey Dougle I have a question if there is a rule barring other unions from going into places of business do you think there is not a reason for it such as

This keeps places of business peaceful.

Also if a company were to have a very bitter relationship with the present union this would keep them from inviting another union in who would be helpful to them as their guest and while they just happened to be there they started handing out propaganda.

Is it 2 weeks I thought it was 6 weeks. There is one where the caw plans to appeal the decision by the labour board that the ufcw is the union at maple grove.I thought the caw promoted democracy why not let the organizers see if they can get 40% then hold a vote.
Employees seemed upset last time that the labour got involved when the decision was hand dow on favour of the ufcw, I wonder what their feelings will be if it goes the other way?

CAW-Canada v. National Grocers Co. Ltd. and UFCW, Locals 1000A, and 175
Pending – Apr. 30, 2004

Sorry I had the date wrong.

Hey bb have you ever tried to make things better by running for steward or divisional officier?
Sometimes it helps to get involved in an attempt to fix things.
Is it etical to divide workers and te labour movement by acting like take over giants in the field of labour?
The caw tells people it is a bad idea for unions to be too large because then you become just a peeble on the beach when justifying it's split with uaw but yet it seems bent on doing this through disversafication.
Could it be now that the caw has milked the big 3 and all it's members until it has become a bloated baby and it has failed to do anything to attract employees to them from the asian makers they feel the need to take from others.
I have a question is it ethical for a few leaders of unions such seiu and rwdsu to take their members to the caw because there has been promises of better or more high profile jobs for them?
Why does the caw rely on fair market competition such as advertising to get members?

Actually one of the things I like about the idea of competition between unions is it does force unions to be a bit more competitive, but I think it would be better if it was the majority that benefitted instead of just the few, and if everything was above board and honest.
Unfortunatley this has not been the case at maple grove and it is funny that it all starts with a deal to benefit Tom Collins then is followed by certain employees trying to bring in another union with benefits for themselves.
If we want others to be accountable for their actions in looking out for our interests we must show the same to one another.
I am sure if the ufcw fails to keep the majority happy not only maple grove but all the warehouses in the NG network will look for a better repersentative but something that will keep us all unified to give us bargining strength.
Keep trying to help your fellow co-workers bb there is nothing more noble than acts done to benefit others while gaining nothing for yourself.

Dougle you wrote:

"Here's a question to all and please I need an answer. What are the rules pertaining to the organization of employee's within the warehouse by organizers that are not employed in that warehouse? Could that be organizing BS?"

Dougle, thanks AGAIN for proving my earlier statement true. You just threw another shot, but you will say no you didn't. At least when I throw a shot I make no bones about it nor do I apologize. You are like the moderators, administrators, and "bb"s ... you all throw your shots, and then explain way and deny.

If you have been paying attention and speaking with anyone who cares to be honest, you would no there has been absolutely no BS from anyone "not employed in that warehouse" as you say. ANYONE is welcome to seek the person out and ask any questions they have as pertains to their concerns, grievances, issues, and questions.

So far there have been primarily two groups of people.

One group consists mainly of those people who are open-minded and have not been afraid to approach and discusss, with several having had their concerns addressed, and all have been perhaps surprised at the concern expressed over their issues and the professional approach taken to address and resolve their issues.

A second group has been closed minded and have acted immature.

Think about it, Dougle. YOU, and members like you, talk about wanting more visibility, wanting more access to the Union office in the warehouse. I AGREE 100% with you on this issue, so please let's not have you or "bb" AGAIN put words in my mouth, or thoughts in my mind. Now you get it and all you can do is look for negatives.

There is NO pleasing people like you. I CAN'T make you happy. Your Union can't make you happy. You need to make yourself happy first. Later this month my words here will prove true once again, just wait and see. Announcement coming and mark my words, the news is very good no question but people like you will still try to find something in it to complain about. I will post it when it happens. In fact I have already written it so I can just copy and paste it here 15 days from today.

Cryers cry
Doers do

Slic, please consider the ideas, do you slow down
or speed up if see a radar trap? If people think they might get caught the usually stop whatever they are doing, that isthe type of pressure I mean

As an analagy did you see Schindlers list? The German put the pistol to the guys head and all of a sudden he could do it. Now dont take that out of context, what I exactly mean is, if there is pressure to perform, people will perform. Do students study before a test because there is a little pressure?

The UFCW is a prime example, special pamplets in the stores, elections, special meetings.
WHY?....I think it is a little pressure.

BTW you may not have heard of A LOT of things in the UFCW like the RCSS deal.

NO

Now that it looks like alot people will be losing jobs at bombadier do we expect to the caw work harder to steal more members away from other unions?

Do you really think he would go up against a union with possible mob connections?
The gay mafia would not be very happy with caw strong arming their way in.
Actually suggested them for maple grove but after the snazzy new uniforms and great coiffs the other benefits they had to offer sent everything down hill.

everyone find a happy place

Road to Reform

Is any of this possiable Slic?

Attention Siggy

Entry: administrator
Function: noun
Definition: manager
Synonyms: ambassador, authority, big brother, boss, bureaucrat, captain, chairman, chief, commander, consul, controller, custodian, dean, director, exec, executive, front office, governor, head, head honcho, head man, inspector, judge, leader, man upstairs, manager, master, mayor, minister, officer, official, organizer, overseer, premier, president, producer, superintendent, supervisor
Antonyms: employee, worker
Concept: business person

Dont you think someone of your stature should look at both sides of a situation before attacking another Union Brother.

Slic is a very educated person when it come to Union issues and your actually making yourself look like a fool when it comes to your responses

Like I say to my kids "Please think before you talk"

quote:

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Siggy, ONCE AGAIN YOU PROVE YOU ARE A PUNK SIMPLY TRYING TO INSTIGATE. GO EFF YOURSELF. NO, I'M NOT ANGRY JUST CALLING A PUNK A PUNK. I HAVE NEVER MET YOU BUT I BET IF YOU HAD BEEN WORKING AT "THE OLD CLOSED DOWN CAW DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO PROTECT THEIR MEMBERS THERE KITCHENER WAREHOUSE" YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE MANY BULLIES, BUT IN MAPLE GROVE, LIKE THE REST OF THEM YOU WOULD HAVE BECOME A NON-DESCRIPT NERD.

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This is way out of line slic. Over the top response for an easy question drawn from your comment.

Take a pill Slic.

Oh btw here's a slice of ufcw democracy: ufcw 1518 just hiked the dues. Full and part time pre-ratification increased $2.85 a week. Add that to the current $11.35.

Junior clerks (new hires) who previously had a base of $5 now pay basic $7 plus 1.02% of their gross.

An average $9/40hr jr as of April will be paying $10.67 a week in ufcw union dues. And they did this all without a membership vote. The constitution allows them to increase at will and the executive willed.

Here's another cute ufcw 1518 dues story for die hards.

Slic

I am sure tht you have not heard about everything inside the UFCW. Just because you have not heard about it does not mean it is not true.

When you state that an dues paying member should be barred from office for "working against the union" what do you mean? IMO anything that I have done was on behalf of members.

Please define who and how a member should be kangaroo courted.

The dues paid members of the UFCW Local 1000A is the lowest in the idustry. It is capped at 7.47 a week for a full time worker.
How much is CAW dues? Can somebody please tell us, give us an example?
Thanks

I want to understand why Buzz is allowed to agree to slash jobs, wages and pesions. There are huge concessions again at Air Canada. Like last time Buzz says no way, but I am sure he will in the end agree to more concessions. Hargrove blames everyone else for more CAW concessions. He is sacrificing union members to service his aspirations of being Prime Minister. I feel bad for the workers at Air Canada because their main union has no vision, of the worker
Just say no to more CAW concessions!
Thanks

Did you try to work things in house first?
You know there were alot options available to you to try first, but would you have the backing of the majority of the members?
You complain about the union not listening to it's membership what did you do to increase the membership voice?
If the membership was really upset I am sure you could have gotten enough people to sign a petition to try and work things out inside the union first and the failing that it could have been the zehrs employees membership of ufcw 1000a vs loblaws and ufcw 1000a board instead an indivual name versus the union.

quote:

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posted by siggy:
[QB][QUOTE]

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Friday night, you pick the parking lot slic.

quote:

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QB]

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My good Brother Slic I will always have your back when it comes to the anti-UFCW Moderators.

geesh I have not heard SH*T talking like that since I was about 19 getting drunk in a bar and starting fights.

Well Its a tough life being a anti-UFCW Moderator.

I hope Slic's response includes those who refuse training as stewards after they are elected and union reps on health and safety comittees who refuse to be trained also.

Dougle,

I stated:

"For the record, any representative of the Union in any capacity should fully expect to be removed from his or her position if they are out there working against their Local. We can't have it both ways."

To answer your question;

By any representative I mean Full-Time Staff, Officer, Steward, Health & Safety Rep et al.

By working against their Local I am referring to outright actions that are intended to put the Local in a bad light. If one is adamant in their views then they should voluntarily step down and go about it that, just like all the moderators here on this Open Forum.

Oh wait, I forgot, the moderators didn't voluntarily step down from anything they got their a$$es handed to them in elections then went out and earned the surname "Bitterman".

P.S. Some people talk about their training and the facts show they have none. I offered my one week's earnings to someone who refused UFCW training because they allege to have all the required training. All I asked was that he produce his credentials. He mumbled. I asked again. he mumbled. Yes MUMBLED. He freakin' MUMBLED.

This is to Demon and Dougle
You have been asking for explanations. You actually asked for certain 'contributors to this site' to come on and answer.
Well now is your chance to defend the CAW concessions.
Some simple math. If you earn 20$/hr, lets say you take home 600$/wk. If you go on strike for five weeks you would suffer 4000$ loss, about 3000$ in your bank account. The union says it just got you 3% increases for the next two years. This is a sneaky concession. The first year you get back about 1250$ and the next year a little more. That leaves about 500$ short of what you lost by going on strike. So your strike pay for the five weeks better have been alot more. You end up coming out even after three years, considering inflation and everything else. If the company has unjust disciplines procedures I would hope that the grievance procedure would take care of that through arbitration. The practice of cleaning up outstanding grievances by collective agreement negotiatiating is lazy. It is simply ineffective and only shows the unions's true depth of futility.
Buzz should be ashamed. The CAW concessions are creating job losses in just about every industry, auto, manufacturing, ......
Caw concessions are disturbing.
Thanks

Dougle,

In all fairness, overtime should never be factored into this discussion. When you go to your bank to negotiate a mortgage, do they include potential overtime earnings into your total income? No.

There are plenty of employees, I know them first hand, who have been buying items and spending money based on expected overtime, and when it didn't happen it left them in a bad situation. It is a 40 hour week. Anything after that should be considered a bonus if you chose to work it.

quote:

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posted by Dougle:
[QB]I could see full-time union staff but stewards etc. Please. A steward, saftey rep, etc, is not there to represent the union, but the members who voted them in. It seems that the UFCW wants their stewards to double as an organizer yes?QB]

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NO!

A person in this position is not asked to "Organize" for there Union but to do the best possible job they can.
When needed they go to the union for advice or leadership.
At MG you have people (mainly uneducated) CAW supporters looking under the microscope that anyone involved in the Union (UFCW) So those people decided on there own to inform people of the CAW and how corrupt they are.

Question for you Dougle:
What has the CAW promised to you?

think hard................

can they deliver?....................

no they just blow smoke up there asses

Dougle wrote:

-----------------------------------------------
"I could see full-time union staff but stewards etc. Please. A steward, saftey rep, etc, is not there to represent the union, but the members who voted them in. It seems that the UFCW wants their stewards to double as an organizer yes?

So what if s/he's views are different than the unions. Should the membership be punnished and not be allowed to nominate and vote in whom they feel can do the best job for them. Slic ITS ABOUT THEM, THE RANK AND FILE."
--------------------------

Think a little brother. I do think a Steward is a representative of the Union, absolutely. And I will tell you what, IF the Steward strictly looks to do the best they can to assist the members, then they are not only representing the members but also the Union in a good light. is that too much to ask? The answer to that is yes for some as you will see later here.

There is NOT any concrete evidence that the UFCW wants their Stewards to double as organizers.

However, there IS concrete evidence that the CAW had people go into the position of Steward to simply sabotage the process and attempt to make the UFCW look bad. In doing so they misrepresented their brothers and sisters on the floor.

Those individuals who took part in that "experiment" demonstrated dishonesty, disrespect, a lack of leadership skills, and a lack of basic people skills.

They should be ashamed of themselves even today as they continue to be a force specifically in the areas of profanity, bullying young workers, and covering the bathroom with vulgar lowest common denominator graffitti. All shameful.

Of course I would be remiss if I didn't mention another of their activities, spreading untruths. I think that is like saying they are lying, not sure though, please discuss.

Today I would have probably engaged in a conversation with one of them but then I realized I don't .............. ok well I will leave that thought for another time.

posted by bb:

quote:

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Classic divirgence of two points of view

1.membership body elects representative, the will of the membership has spoken.

2.The bargaining agent, a separate legal entity for contractual law court actions, deems the elected official innappropiate for whatever reason.

which body should take prescidence?

The membership is the union in truth, however people twist the bargaining agent/membership structure for something other than what it really is.

There is no bargaining agent, the union is the membership, abuse by the bargaining agent because they represent the membership is self serving and motivated by greed.

---

CAW Constitution
Article 11
Officers and Elections

Section 5

(a) No member is eligible for any position in the Union if s/he is trying to decertify the National Union or any subordinate body or is helping a group or union that wants to replace CAW-Canada as the recognized collective bargaining agent.

Just because it is in the constitution doesnt make it right Cupe.

Lets say ABC local has an election based on two candidates, one who advocates changing Unions and one who advocates staying in the same union.

The candidate who wants to move wins a overwhelming majority. Can the elected president fufill his mandate? Should he be removed?

The Unions put these rules in to keep themselves where they are.

So the caw would not accept this type of action from their own members yet they seem to be fine with it when it suits their purpose in another union isn't that a bit hypocritical?

bb if you do not like what the executive is doing then why not try a grass roots reform campaign from inside that is what some of us are doing we are showing we can decide somethings for ourselves and working to start programs that have more worker input for both stores and warehouses and if I get jammed into a caw warehouse I hope my brothers continue to work for this.
You know if you think about this if we were to work in unison both retail and warehousing we would be alot better off, but first there has to be a stopping of this attack on our local then we have to work to unite.

As far rumours go it is best to wait for facts espicially from doomsayers, been hearing them since I have come to work for the company and not one has come true yet.Meetings for the warehouses are at the end of this month.

In this world of gene splicing and cloning and the platypus is anything what it seems?

Slic, I assume you are a member of local 1000A?
The by-laws state union meetings are to be held 4 times per year, any comment on a union not following their own rules?

If there were ever a time Union meetings were necessary it is now, the store membership is worried and anxious about the Company plans for the opening of RCSS in Ontario.

I have never run for an elected position in our Union. I attended all meeting seveal years ago but in the last (6-7) I have only attended sporadically.

My wife is a union member and they have a poorly attended meeting every month.Why dont we?

The beef I have with the Divisional Board structure is their only puroose is..... WHAT? I can give my opinion but really what is the point in a Divsional Board?

As far as I know the divisional members were elected in 2000, this info comes from the Union office, and their term runs 4 years. Seeing as how these "elected representatives" gave the mandate to Kevin Corporon to finalize the RCSS deal, What is your opinion on an open and fair election process this fall?

I stood up at the last divisional meeting and asked Mr Corporon when the next elections would be held and said "you people should be judged on this work". His response was 2008

I have no confidence in a fair process for the removal/election of the divisional officers.

Your point seems to be dougle, that the ufcw got a better than living wage for it's members and the caw got just enough to cover their cost based on where they live?
By the way when I posted the aircanada and the caw stuff it was to show the caw does deals behind doors without member input also in fact it was worse because they went and dealt with someone who did not even own the business yet.I have to wonder what buzz was to get from onex, it seems onex gets buzz's full support even it means doing everything possible to keep onex's competition from getting aircanada.
Isn't that biz unionism?
I though everyone here thought that was evil.
When it comes down to it there is not much difference between the two.
The only thing I have found so far that disturbs me really is the way the caw seems to through poor business sense lose so many members to layoffs and plant shutdowns.
What is the point of driving up wages to the point where it is more profitable for companies to move out of canada and pay to ship stuff back to canda?
Maybe if the caw concentrated more on it's members instead the rest of the world they would have a lot more mebers employed instead of ex members on assistance.
Just think about they get these high wages for their member for which they get a percentage more money for them to keep financing buzz's and his friend political agendas, I would like to know how does it benefit the members for the NEB of the caw to come out in support of the world council of churches and the issue of a wall between the arabs and the jews in Israel?
Why do I care how buzz feels about gay students and the prom?
Why does buzz feel the need to inform the members and the world how they should feel on every social issue?
Oh and by the way Dougle your reference to the day one and day two and telling the day two they may need is exactly the type of atittude that has managed to anger people so.Everytime you open your mouth you show your true colours.

Actually RCSS are right across canada. some have already been built in Ontario, just they use the tie in banners from the Y.I.G's and zehrs, fortinos and loblaws.

Attack the idea not the person!

quote:

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I place you in the latter because nothing seems to make you even question your devotion to the UFCW

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Fu is here, doesn't that imply questions?

Dougle

You wrote some things recently in this thread and I will address them as he wishes. However, if you get offended so be it brother.

Dougle wrote:

"Also when has our boot allowance gone up to $180? I don't remember reading that in our CA must be fiction."

Dougle ... I know you can read but your comprehension and retention skills leave much to be desired. You took a statement I made on its face and failed to connect it to an earlier statement I had made and replies to it that others had made. You need to follow along and remember what has already been said brother. So to address your comment above, I had stated earlier that last summer the boot allowance went up to $90 per year which is $180 for two years in the new Erin Mills Transport CA. It is easy to assume that the Warehouse CA will adapt that same if not better boot allowance. And yes $180 is more than $160.

Dougle wrote:

"OOOHHHH Stats Canada must be wrong....!"

Dougle ... in Kitchener house prices are higher and in Peterboro condominium and apartment prices are higher. Cars, furniture, groceries, electronics are evenly priced. Clothing, and summer and winter sporting equipment are more expensive in Peterboro.

As for the original arguement being Mississauga vs. Kitchener, that suits me just fine. You get the wages negotiated for Mississauga, however you live in Kitchener so it is to your advantage. Case closed.

If wages are to be negotiated based on geography then the only geography that matters is the location of the workplace, not the workforce. I can find a workplace then chose where to live.

P.S. Remember, don't touch the heating elements on the stove when the stove is turned on. Remember when as a kid you found out if you touch it you get burned? Well, that still holds true today.

"bb", a Divisional Board is only as good as its elected Officers. Clearly, I can't speak for the Divisonal Boards with respect to the stores, maybe someone else here can. I will speak for the Warehouse Divisional Board. It does a lot of good work. There are some of us who have pride in what we do and continue to work to make positive changes. Knock that if you must but I believe in it and I have seen many positive changes in the last three (3) years. The challenge is there, the work continues, and I have the will and the ability to see it through.

Slic, What is the divisional board work that you do?
(I am assuming that you are on from your previous post)

Do the divisional board members collect honariums directly approved by the president?

Do the divisional Boards elect the e-boards by ballot at the "local convention" by secret ballot.

Has there ever been a opposition slate that you know of?

From the weekend newspapers:

-----------------------------------------------
Canadian Auto Workers union officials are in talks with FORD Canada about how to minimize LAYOFFS at the automaker's operations in Windsor, which supply engines for the slow-selling Freestar minivan.

Workers are bracing for cuts now that FORD has confirmed it will reduce staff at the company's Essex engine plant and a casting plant that feeds parts to Essex.

About 1,800 people work at the Essex engine plant and 1,100 at the Windsor casting plant.
--------------------------------------

Another day another round of layoffs for the CAW. Now let's assume we are to believe everything we hear about the CAW from the supporters. So how come the CAW is going to allow this to happen? These things simply aren't suppose to happen under the CAW watch, right?

Tell that to the people of Essex, Ontario, a soon to be ghost town thanks to Basil. Just another in a long list of ghost towns created by the legacy of Basil and the CAW ever since they broke away from the UAW.

Due to the irresponsible actions of the CAW how many auto industry jobs have been lost in Ontario in the last ten (10) years?

Essex, Ontario ... RIP

Sad.

DeMoN once tried to get my ex-roomate fired for telling him not to stand in front of his car while he was handing out CAW propaganda.
He wrote up this long statement and brought it too management saying he was threatened..

Union brothers do not try to get other Union brothers fired.
I refer to them something that starts with "R" and ends with "T" and in the middle there is an "A".

Oh sorry Kitchener guys it spells RAT

Slic. knock off the attacks. You too Pinebushes. I've had nearly enough of both of you.

Consider this a warning and understand that it's not up for discussion.

Clean up your act or take it elsewhere.

quote:

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When the facts are consistently denied or somehow twisted what is the point?

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I see it as part of a positive process. There's a huge difference between hit and run and sticking around IMO. Or at the very least, union loyalty killed the cat, information brought it back !

quote:

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For the record I will again state that I do not support CAW and I do not work for maple grove.

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I would have a difficult time signing any union card, if I ever got to choose. I wonder if that question is in thier member satisfaction surveys?

quote:

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I am willing to wager that once the task at hand is finished their will no longer be a reason to stick around.

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Ever heard of backwash?

I can count "the task's" points of progress on one hand and still have enough fingers left over to keyboard this post.

quote:

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Dougle your reference to the day one and day two and telling the day two they may need is exactly the type of atittude that has managed to anger people so.Everytime you open your mouth you show your true colours.

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Please Explain FU, How reminding the Day two That they have support within the day one pool, and reminding them that they will need our help after, angers people so. Facts are Facts, We need them and they need us inorder to take it to " The Man".
It's called solidarity.

you just don't get it FU. Nor will you.
Don't fight to make a difference, Co's never make money, People who want to change from the status quoe are bad, Everthing is hopless. Got it about right?

Scotty This is just for you man.

Just Asking?

Dougle wrote:

"Sorry man, but your arguement doesn't make any sence. Isn't a condo or Apt. concidered less desirable than to live in a house? Therefore lower in price than a house or townhouse?"

Again, you read very well I am sure but your comprehension skills are lacking.

First, I made the statement that in Kitchener house prices are higher but in Peterboro Condominium prices are higher, period. Seocnd, let each individual make his or her choice as to what is more or less desirable, you don't have the right to make it for them.

Dougle wrote:

"How could the cost of summer/winter equipment be more expencive when the cost of the "others", which are more expencive and costly to store, are evenly priced?"

Please tell us the last time you purchased clothing, sporting equipment, or cottage related itemss in Peterboro. What? Never? I thought so. So again tell those of us who have how you came to conclusion.

As for where we work and traffic, again that is all about personal choice. You need to get out of that small box world you live in. The population of Toronto is what, 3 million, and how many million people coomute to wrok in Toronto. Given your small thinking, no one would work in the major city so as to avoid traffic.

Get out of left field brother, please.

Hey Dougle it is a case of equal pay for equal work plain and simple.

We all live in Ontario or is this the kind of barginning we will come to expect if the caw get in at maple grove?

The price of our homes will be the factor as to how much or how little money we recieve for our jobs?

posted by Fed Up:
Hey Dougle it is a case of equal pay for equal work plain and simple.

We all live in Ontario or is this the kind of barginning we will come to expect if the caw get in at maple grove?

If you are saying that the CAW should be able to negotiate the same wage rate as MG on the basis of "equal pay for equal work", Why dosent the UFCW negotiate on the same basis for their own contributers?

Store level contributers are subject to 2 FT wage tiers and 3 PT wage tiers in my workplace.

Does anyone know the actual date of the decert vote at Maplegrove?? Frankly speaking we have been goin thru this ," My union can beat up your union!" for over 2 years now! I am FN sick to death of all the rhetoric being spewed about and would like to go back to a time where going to work meant going to "WORK" ! You bloody moderators and administrators like to piss about the way "Maplegrove" threads are going,,shit,,can you imagine what its like working there???? My God,, you guys would have slit your wrists a year ago!!!! So come on,,gimme a date when I can "check my brain at the door" and just work????

BB,,I believe there is 40% cards signed however I do not know if there is 50% support.I believe there may be though.

Christ Hagen,, you know what I have said, I have said it to you, to Terry, to John.........The curators of this site have a link going about the CAWs suspect leaders. So when given the choice between shit and shit,,,i guess i will choose shit...lol....As far as a bible thumper for the UFCW,,,gimme a break. And as far as slamming the kitchener guys,,I am refering to you boobs on my shift and I havent"chased anyone with my opinion. If I am asked for it I will give it. As far as my lack of knowledge of the date,,how about you tell me the day you are putting your application in and I will add 5 days to it to get my answer.

If I think both unions are of questionable reputations I dont wanna give loblaws the chance to renegotiate the bribe! Aside from union affiliation. As a unionist,can you not see the benefits of having all sites under one banner with contracts all coming due at the same time? The CAWcontracts that you guys let me peek atfor 1 hour one night didnt "jump out' to be anything special except the few points I noted. And I get real nervous following people who are zealots in their love of the union of their choice. You said Whickham was in cahoots with the UFCW in the smoke shack with Craiger',,, tell me,,what have you been promised by the CAW if you successfully organize us. Will u get discs for ALL OF US to watch,,not just a few" choice senior guys?" DEMON is the CAW's version of FED UP.

edelio

quote:

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So when given the choice between shit and shit,,,i guess i will choose shit...lol....

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No union perfect and the CAW is no exception but there is a huge difference between a little dirt in the corner and mountian high enough to ski on.

quote:

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And as far as slamming the kitchener guys,,I am refering to you boobs on my shift

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Are these the same boobs you wouldn't hire to shovel dog crap? These are good, honest, hard working people for the most part (no different than anyone else on the floor) what is this need to always stick it to the "Kitchener" brothers?

quote:

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If I think both unions are of questionable reputations I dont wanna give loblaws the chance to renegotiate the bribe!

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What makes you think the UFCW hasn't already? C.M. asked Brien Read at the last general meeting "what is to stop this union from signing a sweet heart deal with the Company and then a year later opening the CA and amending it (give concessions like they did with the retail workers) and not giving us a vote on it" Brian Reads answer was "there is nothing to prevent that from happening!

This is going to be a new tool in their in concession tool box!

quote:

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As a unionist,can you not see the benefits of having all sites under one banner with contracts all coming due at the same time?

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I can see it perfectly, so why is it the UFCW fails to see it? The 5 warehouse under our CA are dated to expire 6 months apart for a reason (to remove any threat of strikes at all the DC's at once)!

quote:

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The CAWcontracts that you guys let me peek atfor 1 hour one night didnt "jump out' to be anything special except the few points I noted.

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I'll get you a copy with amendments from the new CA signed on March 10/th 2004.

quote:

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And I get real nervous following people who are zealots in their love of the union of their choice.

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We aren't asking you to follow anyone, we are asking you to make an intelligent decision on what union is going to be the best for Maple Grove.
Do you really see changes for the good with the UFCW at the helm? There is a huge division of the membership at Maple Grove and it won't go away with the UFCW (Kevin Corporon is steadfast in ignoring the wishes of the membership).
I don't have to live with this union any longer to know it's rotten to the core and beyond saving. Maybe you're willing to wait (just one more year) but i've had enough and so have the majority of the members at Maple Grove.

quote:

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You said Whickham was in cahoots with the UFCW in the smoke shack with Craiger',,,

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I'l talk to you at work about that not here.

quote:

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tell me,,what have you been promised by the CAW if you successfully organize us.

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The only thing i've been promised is a right to decide my future and the direction it will go. I don't want or need someone sitting in an ivory tower making dicisions that will affect me and my fellow brothers and sisters without our input!

With the CAW, we will have complete control over the direction we will take our union through our elected council, stewards and the national union resources available to us.

quote:

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Will u get discs for ALL OF US to watch,,not just a few" choice senior guys?"

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If you don't get one i'll make sure you get it.

quote:

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DEMON is the CAW's version of FED UP.

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Damn ! where has that "emoticon" with the middle finger
Don't ever compare me with Fed Up.........

Yeah Demon could never be me, that would take some integrity and an interest in the welfare of others, I said I would do certain things to help everyone and I did them, by the way all your brothers and sisters at the other warehouses that were at the general meetings in toronto said with exception of one they would never have a problem with anyone wether they belonged to another union or local having their full company senority to post any where they wish to.

Pinebushes_Scotty

Shouldn't you be on the phone to the UFCW asking why they lost all the work from the Pinebush warehouse and gave it to a third party warehouse?

How many people are going to be put out of work because of that Pinebushes_Scotty?

Another thing to think about Pinebushes_Scotty, what if the UFCW doesn't get a voluntary recognition agreement in the new Erin Mills CA this fall?

DeMoN

DeMoN

quote:

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posted by Fed Up:

However, I am happy to report the C. A, W. will be recognized as the bargaining agent for the new facility Johnson Controls is opening in Whitby foregoing the required legislation required to certify a new local.

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Not so fast Fed Up, the legislation requires the membership approval AT THE TIME THE DEAL IS ENTERED INTO.

They can agree but the membership, the new membership has to agree before it atkes effect.

Dont you remember the UFCW getting its ass kicked at the Board for the Provigo deal? Read the decisions in the files under partnering.

Either you are ill-informed or have spread a vicious rumour to support your cause whatever it may be.

Which is it? link

Fed Up

quote:

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I became a former employee of Johnson Controls, Stratford, when the corporation announced the closure on Sept. 12/01 of the Stratford facility. The company representative told us they were moving the work to Mexico for cost effective reasons.

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Stop blaming unions for the actions of greedy companies and bad managment. It wouldn't matter what union was in there, when a company see's that they can move their manufacturing to a third world country ruin their environment and pay poverty wages to "maximize profits" they will.

In this case the CAW kept the work in Canada!

Why don't you tell us what the UFCW would do, would it offer to lower the wages and benefits to third world levels to keep those jobs, or would it fight back like the CAW did?

http://caw.ca/whatwedo/bargaining/bycompany/johnson/index.asp

DeMoN

Fed Up

quote:

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My hope would have the ufcw took their announcement seriously and barginned to get the best for their members before this had to happen.

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You must believe in time travel

DeMoN

DeMoN,

Why don't you tell us about how you bad mouthed a fellow brother on your shift? How you spread a lie about him and the promises he was allegedly made by the UFCW? How you attempted to discredit him? He is 100 times the man you could ever be. You acted like a snake, slithering about the afternoon shift spreading garbage. He is a man of integrity, he cares about his fellow workers, he actually represents them to the best of his ability. He cares. You on the other hand, when given the same opportunity, the same privilege not too long ago, fell flat on your face.

And why is it you have so much to say when I am not around this Open Forum for a few days. When I am around you have nothing to say.

Remember how you listened to a fellow brother speak at the meeting the other day, then you listened to two other brothers echo the same sentiment, only to then twist everything they had said only two minutes later? Good thing someone had the wherewithall to speak up and tell you that you were 100% wrong, which was the exact time you decided to take your notes and go home.

3 issues that seem to be the mein reason some want the ufcw out and the caw in are

1 day senority for down grades-there were members at the meeting day one who agreed to sign a paper that they would give this up, language was purposed that there would be no more down grades period, anither option that has been put forward is all the day one people get together and hold a vote on it.

I found it funny that Demon was against the day one signing sheets because if any didn't they would feel pressured to by the fact that they would be standing alone in their resolve to keep,yet he wanted the union to strip them of it.

2 company senority for posting out of maple grove, I spent the day at miss. on monday talking to members of the different warehouses they all were fine with that they had no problem with anyone having full senority to post anywhere.

3 getting jobs with weekends off and different shifts, with the expansion coming soon there will be those options also with the purposals in the contract there could also be changes to shift structures

Here is the thing I do not understand maple grove will be the last warehouse to vote on the contract so we will get to see exactly what it holds for us, we then get to decide wether to turn it down and go back to the table or vote to decertify the ufcw.What's the problem with waiting to see what we can get if we do not like the offer from one union then we can try another, but if we go caw now we will be in a weaker position, and think about this also if all warehouses agree to this the plan is to have them all expire at the same time that means all warehouses will be poised for strike action the next time we go in for a negiotation.

So again I ask what is wrong with waiting a year to see what we can get?

Also by be the last to ratify we will entitled to retroactive pay from the first day the contract was ratified by the first warehouse.

Explanation please?
With the division of choice at Maple Grove how would a new union get rid of that?
Will another union get rid of management?
Will a new union tell the company what direction it is going to take?
You already said it Demon. It is all about your own need for control.
It should be about what is in the best interest of the members at Maple Grove. The UFCW is going into contact negotiations this year with best interests of its members from all five warehouses.
Thanks

quote:

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we then get to decide wether to turn it down and go back to the table or vote to decertify the ufcw.

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Slic true of false If we at MG turn down the CA we don't get to go back to the table until 2006 when our contract expires.

What else do we lose out on If we vote no.

Mr Slic,

Well, well getting personal Too bad. such a shame. Well Bro you don't need worry about my family I take good care of them. Could I say the same for you?

Now If we could just stick to the issues and statements here instead of going on about family and personallities, etc that would be greatly appreciated. This forum is starting to sound like a High School Chat room. THX

Yes I already knew but for some who read this form they don't.

Second: What will we lose would pertain to the agreements that we have now concerning portability etc.

Third: You'll have to be around inorder to get us to vote brother.

Slic, you seem quite angry toward Dougle, can you explain why?

quote:

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You have made personal comments on numerous occasions against a person you call the "Committee Man", but your memory escapes you I am sure.

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And I have spoken to this person and have made ammends to this individual. I don't see why your dragging this through the Mud again?

quote:

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You were APPOINTED as a BACK-UP Steward. You came second therefore you were appointed as BACK-UP.

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Not appointed Elected. I understand that I wouldn't be the UFCW's first choice or second but my brothers and sisters seem to have faith. And both myself and the primary appreciate your work in obtaining our training. However why your getting upset about dates I don't understand. Weither it was one or the other it's only mistaken by a day not a big deal, all I wanted was to make sure that the dates were infact what they are inorder to arange personal issues and accomidation of my own.

And I don't have a key nor require one. I am more then happy to play by what ever rules that the UFCW want me to play by as far as representation goes. I'm there for the People that I work with cause they are the most important and not ANY union. I understand why you wouldn't want me to have access because of my preferance of unions seeing that there would be UFCW organization material within that office as well as the other incident or what ever reason. But it's good to know that you are having me followed and really care what I say.

I'll have to start bringing my Camera and tape recorder along for my daily excursions. Also documenting the phone calls and E-mail. Back to where we just came from?

It's too bad that it has come to this point with you and myself. You have the passion for the position that you hold and the intelligence to get the job done. You are good at what you do as far as representation goes. Same goes for the " Committee man" No matter what anyone says about you... Your OK by me. (no sarcasim intended)

Twisting half truths and BS I'll leave for the UFCW to write and distribute. See even the new cards that have been issued about the UFCW fighting standards and the CAW having not is Incorrect. Since you know what I've said and what Ive heasd then your niformant would also know the the CAW has infact fought standards at kitchener and else where. They did a time study at kitchener with one of their own as well as the Co engineer and was about to go to the table with the arguement when boom closure.

What bullshit? I asked true or false all I needed was an answer weither I knew it or not is irrelivant I want to know what you thought.

First is the representation vote then the CA vote so you'll sorry UFCW will have to be around to get us to vote.

The only person appointed in the CAW as far as warehouse is the Health and Saftey Steward. Some locals have an election process and some do not. They are appointed in cases where they have had extencive training in this field. Any Committe would be temporary untill a general meeting could be had and the membership vote in whom they want.

Seeing as you are going to be this way I will no longer respond to your statements As long as you continue to behave this way. I would hope that others would do the same.

BB,
I used to be an avid supporter of the UFCW.I came from Mississauga. I've posted things on this website back in 02, I even was apart of their video. IMO Mr slic and other UFCW supporter don't understand my switch and attempts at bringing me back into the fold have failed. And they have taken it personally. Too bad I have great respect for those people what ever their decisions.

FU:
Weither they had them by the balls or not I don't know because I havn't seen the work nor would I be able to understand it. However what I do understand is that the information within it is particular to Kitchener and not Peterborough.
We don't really know what happens at Peterborough as far as standards are concerned because no one from there posts here. Perhaps they don't have the same issues with standards that we have, as far as disapline goes. Therefore don't have the need to address it.
Teamsters negotiated Ottawa. Also they did say that the membership at Peterborough are satisfied with the contract that they have seeing that they negotiated it and agreed to it. Their previous or base contract was done by the RW-DSU.
Do you understand now what they are talking about when it comes to the membership having the power. Their whole structure is based on Rank and file... US.

GET FREAKING REAL.

Same company ... Loblaws (Distribution)
Same work ... assembly

The UFCW has spent $400,000 on the case against the Standards and it is ready for Arbitration. There have been duly qualified engineers, and ergonomists from both sides.

BUT we are supposed to believe that a CAW time-studies guy (time and motion studies) went through the Kitchener warehouse and had the whole thing solved. Had the company by the ball$.

That is absolutely a Walt Disney Fairy Tale.

Oh and Dougle, believe it, in your perfect scenario that you want to see happen ... the "Committee" has already been selected. That is FACT. The whole Committee not just the Health and Safety, who by the way I will say again, does NOT have up to date training that would qualify him to do anything but place a phone call to his contact at the WSIB.

The Key To The UFCW Union Office

The locks are getting changed! Since there are not enough keys to go around.
When this is done everyone will obviously have keys.
There is no worry about any stewards having the power to disrupt the flow of information within the office structure.
Doulge you overate yourself. Please!!!!
Do not get personal? Dougle you stand up at a caw meeting and spew personal crap. I said before make sure you know the facts before you start shooting your mouth off. Stop telling lies? It is easy, just stop. Please no more desperate caw lies.
Thanks

quote:

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the "Committee" has already been selected. That is FACT. The whole Committee not just the Health and Safety, who by the way I will say again, does NOT have up to date training that would qualify him to do anything but place a phone call to his contact at the WSIB.

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Proof of the committee selection Since it's fact. I would think from your statement that you have a more qualified Health and Safety Persons. As UFCW members we would like to know who you concider more qualified than the "Captian of the Love Boat"? Is your offer of $1000 still on the table?

FU the CAW is NOW a democratic union we don't have to wait or fight for it. The Democratic process is one of the bases that the CAW was built on. We don't have to fight to get it it's offered right off the hop.

There will be something better in place to make the Co accountable... by the CAW When they get in.

It would not be responciable of me to not get both sides both as a union member and a Family man. Either way we will have to work with one or the other and it's only common sence to get along and know what's going on. As I've said before it's harder to rebuild bridges than to burn them.

quote:

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Do not get personal? Dougle you stand up at a caw meeting and spew personal crap.

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What personal Crap? Which meeting? Where you there to hear it or was it second hand and possiably a rumor?

quote:

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Stop telling lies?

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What Lies? Is IMO lying? Is insinuations lying? What Desperate CAW lies?

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Okay you said the caw was this great solidarity union- if they were then why not bring the information gleaned from kitchener to peterborough?

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What's to say that they haven't.

Perhaps you miss interperited the CAW person. Sarcasum can be hard to miss?

The open peroid is comming isn't it April 23rd? Just a little while longer. I can't wait to see what the UFCW's going to come up with. Haven't seen many UFCW hats or pins.

I just reviewed the email thread regarding this issue. I do not wish to engage in a battle of Union v. Union, because I believe that any Union will do whatever they can to keep their dues base if the members will allow it. The bottomline is the strength of any Union lies within the rank and file and if we allow the "bosses" of the Union to make unethical decisions then we are just as guilty for the downfall of the labour movement.

However I thought I would post to clarify a few points on the CAW and Johnson Controls (JCI) issue.

Fed Up posted a former JCI employees frustratation concerning the resolve to their fight.

quote:

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However, I am happy to report the C. A, W. will be recognized as the bargaining agent for the new facility Johnson Controls is opening in Whitby foregoing the required legislation required to certify a new local.

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BB's response was,

quote:

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Not so fast Fed Up, the legislation requires the membership approval AT THE TIME THE DEAL IS ENTERED INTO.

They can agree but the membership, the new membership has to agree before it atkes effect.

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JCI opened a plant in Whitby to supply GM with parts at the Oshawa complex. The CAW was voluntary recognized by JCI as the bargaining agent. While BB may be correct in asserting that the employees must approve the deal, it is not without influence by the employer. When considering that the initial employment levels at the plant were very low, that the employees were priorly unemployed, that the new JCI employees included former CAW Union members from Stratford, and JCI voluntary recognized the CAW as a condition of employment, ratification was a formality.

DeMoN posted,

quote:

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Stop blaming unions for the actions of greedy companies and bad managment. It wouldn't matter what union was in there, when a company see's that they can move their manufacturing to a third world country ruin their environment and pay poverty wages to "maximize profits" they will.

In this case the CAW kept the work in Canada!

Why don't you tell us what the UFCW would do, would it offer to lower the wages and benefits to third world levels to keep those jobs, or would it fight back like the CAW did?

http://caw.ca/whatwedo/bargaining/bycompany/johnson/index.asp

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Sorry DeMon but your perception of what happened in Stratford is incorrect.
Your link to the JCI dispute is the original dispute, and is information that preceeded the final outcome.
JCI informed its employees in Stratford that the plant was closing and moving the work to Mexico. The plant supplied trim to Chrysler in Bramelea. The membership decided to occupy the plant in order to fight back and save the jobs. The Company blinked and agreed to the settlement outlined in your weblink. This bought them more time and allowed them to continue to supply their customer (Chrysler). After a few months of production, JCI then reneged on the settlement.
The CAW threatened legal intervention, and other tactics, blah, blah, blah.
But at the end of the day the plant closed.
You stated that,

quote:

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In this case the CAW kept the work in Canada!

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No, they didn't. The work is gone. JCI in Stratford supplied Chrysler Bramelea with seat trim. JCI in Whitby supplies automotive interiors for GM.

In my opinion, the CAW gave up the fight in Stratford for voluntary recognition in Whitby.

May I ask bb what reforms could have changed that situation?

Yes but bb, that was the great and democratic caw that did this to it's members.

If I had posted this info with the ufcw attached there would have been endless postings of what a bunch of bastards.

You know when it comes to maple grove and caw vs ufcw I have shown that the caw does some really crappy things to it's members and some here have shown some really crappy things the ufcw does, so we can agree they both do crappy things to their members. So what comes down to which union has more to offer us maple grove.

The ufcw 1000a offers us portability,
coming into the ufcw 1000a meant 5 dollar raises for those from the 175
and 3 dollars raises for those from the 1 st tier caw guys
being 1000a means the barginning power of 5 warehouses versus only one against loblaws
being ufcw has benefitted the former caw members in that they have gotten a better pension also.
those who joined also got a christmas bonus of 1 weeks pay

When you choose jobs you look at which one offers the most in benefits and wages why wouldn't you do that when selecting a union?

Yeah I would say there is a difference, but it was in the way the respective unions handled it.

The ufcw took seriously the threat of closure, and did the best they could and secured jobs and good buyouts and no further concessions for it's members.

The caw told their members to ignore it the threat they were not going to negiotate a close down and their members suffered, but they may have a learned a little because now they are negiotating cut backs at ford.

When companies say we will close our doors, I think it is something that should not be taken lightly no matter what we may think about their financial situation.

Question. Are the majority of stores slated to close under the RCSS old stores? Ones that were going to have to be updated, possiably re-located, too small compaired to the new mega size stores?

If so then the Co played another great hand against the short sighted UFCW inorder to get more from their members.

quote:

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do you really want to be the person to make that call that affects thousands of already dues paying members and be wrong?

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All I want is a vote, It's called democracy!

quote:

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The majority of the dues paying members were taken care of I am yet to hear from anyone that suffered.

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I have heard many, the latest, No full time grocery day staff in RCSS that are union, only non union managers.
All other staff are being offered Produce clerk or night crew jobs.

quote:

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Question. Are the majority of stores slated to close under the RCSS old stores? Ones that were going to have to be updated, possiably re-located, too small compared to the new mega size stores?

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In short NO!

Since you seem to know nothing of what's going on Re: RCSS why don't you stick to the MG topic of which your only solid argument so far seems to be your portability argument!

quote:

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The union did not take away your right to vote on that contract the company did.The union was forced to make a judgement call wether it was better to take the deal and do the best it could for it's members or tell the company we are going to the members and risk the memberships employment

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What a bunch of hooey, What a well trained union mouth piece you are!

Tell me please yes or no.
Does the union work for me?

If the answer is yes, then should the decision not be mine?

You cant force the union to make a decision on my behalf, When they work for me!

[QUOTE]posted by Fed Up:
[qb]The union did not take away your right to vote on that contract the company did.The union was forced to make a judgement call wether it was better to take the deal and do the best it could for it's members or tell the company we are going to the members and risk the memberships employment. [QUOTE]

The Union took away the members right to vote along with 3 million dollars .

quote:

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No the union does not work for you. It works for all of it's members. So it must decide what is best for all. Maybe you could have afforded to see if te company was lying but what about the guy or girl with a family who could not.

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Umm, Thats "me" union boy but please keep grasping.

posted by NIGHTS

quote:

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Tell me please yes or no.
Does the union work for me?

If the answer is yes, then should the decision not be mine?

You cant force the union to make a decision on my behalf, When they work for me!

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NIGHTS:

Could the CAW make decisions on your behalf?

Can the UFCW discipline UFCW members for having gone to the Workers' Compensation Board, Employment Insurance Board of Referees and or Human Rights Commission without any UFCW representatives?

CAW Constitution

Article 6
Membership

Section 11

The National Union and the Local Union to which the member belongs shall be her/his exclusive representative for:

. acting for the member before a board, court or other tribunal in any matter affecting her/his status as an employee or as a union member.

. representing the member in settling grievances or disputes arising from the employer-employee relationship.

Decisions resulting from the union's actions are binding on the member.

Dougle, why did you post anything from that rag?

nothing in it is followed by local 1000a.

Elections by membership

Nominations by membership for executive board.

meetings every month, unless local says every 3 months.

That is just for starters.

Okay just a hint for you caw organizers have a meeting so you are all on the same page, you guys are all over the place now at work.

At a caw meeting we were told the caw had the company by the balls on standards, then today I am told that may have been a bit over the top by a former kitchener employee.

Then he informs me they never had to pick over 70%, I thought they told us they got their time in no time and could play baseball in the warehouse which is it you picked all day and got 70% or you picked your minutes in no time?

Then we are told the union got it so when we got our minutes we could play baseball then I am told it was the company that told us it was okay as they needed the machines.

Maybe the reason things were so lax at kitchener could be the same reason other small warehouses are lax, because they are small warehouses.

If the caw does happen to get into maplegrove you are going to get a real kick in the head when you try to stand up to the company, there it is all about the money.

And guess what you will stand alone the mill surveyors freemont and pinebush will all have their new contracts and already know how the game is played, but if they do have stand up they will united and will have ajax with them in the near future also.

posted by bb

quote:

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Dougle, why did you post anything from that rag?

nothing in it is followed by local 1000a.

meetings every month, unless local says every 3 months.

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bb:

How many UFCW Local 1000a general membership meetings have been held in the previous twelve months?

CAW Constitution

Article 30
Duties and Powers of
Subordinate Bodies

Section 4 (a) (iii)

Local with large membership can ask NEB to set up workplace council to be membership body. Council meets monthly, general meeting yearly.

Section 4 (b)

Amalgamated Locals with Joint Councils. One general meeting a year.

Posted by CUPE_Reformer

quote:

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NIGHTS:

Could the CAW make decisions on your behalf?

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OOPS, It looks like I have been pegged as a CAW supporter again.

Nothing I have ever posted is meant to support CAW, But rather to show what you may get by remaining UFCW.

Somehow I think the two groups, one former CAW and the present UFCW are both too thick headed to realize.

1: Both unions have flaws.

2: The only chance to become united in brotherhood, is to look at a third option where everyone starts fresh, and on the same page.

United they will stand, divided good luck at ever achieving anything.

quote:

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posted by Fed Up:
I would like a few questions answered please, has anyone ever heard of a union taking members from another local and another union into a place where they were the union of record and giving those from the differents local and union full company senority?

If you got to go to another union that bargined better wages and benefits and paid alot less in dues wouldn't that be a plus?

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I have never heard of a Union doing that. When I was in my thirtys I worked at a assembly plant (C.A.W) and our factory closed but we had a chance to work at the sister plant just north of London. (Again C.A.W)
when I went over there they told me I had no senority anymore and that I could not grieve this because it would be thrown out!
I now work at Loblaws in London and Im with U.F.C.W 175 I dont care for them but what can I do.
I have heard some good things about 1000a and there wages

whenever new hires get hired into any wharehouse they are told they are in the union be it caw or ufcw so what we should hold votes whenever there are new hires to see if the majority wish to be in the same union?

By the way Demon if I was you I would quit accusing ufcw supporters of being selfish I hear the reasoning you use and trust me it is as selfish as it gets.

What are you trying to say Dougle?

Hey SR do you know anything about the woman from London sueing hargrove, the caw and 3M for something like 60 million dollars?

quote:

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posted by Fed Up:
Hey SR do you know anything about the woman from London sueing hargrove, the caw and 3M for something like 60 million dollars?

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Yes I have heard about it, but when it comes to the C.A.W I really dont pay to much attention.
they like to screw people just to get union dues.

What is the matter Dougle you do not want to face that maybe all that rheotoric we heard at the caw meeting was just a good sales pitch, I will give the guy who conducted that meeting that much, I'd consider buying a car off him.

By the way going back to that meeting why was it stated that loblaws and the ufcw have an 8yr old handshake agreement on standards and the ufcw not fighting them when there has only been engineered labour standards for 5 years.

Actually a supervisor said before WMS they used a pen and paper and had a case count to achieve in alot of warehouses.I do not know if that is what you are referring to okie.

As long as you know were sold something Dougle it is a start.

I wonder though if all these irate indivuals who complained about how unfair it was for them not to have immediate senoirity will give it to any indivuals who may end up coming from surveyors if they need to one day? That is IF we are caw.

Buzz speaks out -

The mood on the shop floor is getting militant: union chief

Corporate scandals have hurt, hargrove says. Demographics becoming a challenge for labour, as was apparent in the standoff at Air Canada

http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/columnists/story.asp?id=77FBBA19-57BF-4AE2-A2DA-EF4F3A36F0B3

Actually the caw went door to door someone told me tonight before they left london the caw went up there and told them all sorts of stuff and then said if they signed union cards they would be taken care.

Someone told me that they heard from someone, that ufcw pigs can fly

quote:

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I have been down that road before.....
C.A.W promised me all this shit and never came through they are as corrupt as ever.

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How does reneged_on promises translate to "corrupt"?

Corrupt is buying into a company that has CAW workers in the same facility.
Thats like the UFCW buying Loblaws and making sure the members buy no frills

When Frieghtliner turned into Sterling Trucks in St.Thomas the employees with the help of a guy named Richard Laverty brought in the C.A.W.
The C.A.W is a great Union for the Auto Industry becasue that is there specialty.
The C.A.W is now trying to dip into ever other type of industry just to get more dues.
The C.A.W is strong in the Auto Industry because the have power in numbers within the Auto Industry.
In Grocery the UFCW is powerful for the same reason "Power in numbers" if 1 UFCW 1000a goes on strike they will basically freeze Loblaws in Ontario.

quote:

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posted by Strongman_Robby:

In Grocery the UFCW is powerful for the same reason "Power in numbers" if 1 UFCW 1000a goes on strike they will basically freeze Loblaws in Ontario.

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I question you theory Strongman, there is no doubt that there are a lot of UFCW members in the grocery industry, but is the UFCW powerful?

If they are, why are wages and benefits taking a ****kicking?

quote:

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posted by bb:
[QUOTE]

If they are, why are wages and benefits taking a ****kicking?

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From what I understand there wages in the 1000a warehouses are superior to other warehouses, Part-time employees are looked after, good benefits and number 1 JOB SECURITY!

I don't know the full story on the RCSS deal but from what I understand the Union had to do it to save its members jobs and Union rights.
A rock and a hard place I heard

Power comes with solidarity.
Solidarity comes with communication and information.
Power is some of the best contracts, in their specific industries.
YES Power is numbers.
The new constitution allows for the membership to vote in the leaders.
YES The power is in the membership.
YES The UFCW is powerfull!!!
Thanks

Strongman_robby, Go work in a 1000a warehouse for a year then tell me that it is "number 1 job security", ive seen many people get fired for bullshit reason's and the union just looked the other way. What is the reason of a union when they let the company do whatever they want?

BTW how many unions make new part-timers pay union dues when they are not legally protected by the union until after "90 working days"?

cas don't give us this crap about people getting fired and the union does nothing I know guys who have been fired in the last year and have gotten their jobs back, I know for a fact right now their are guys at home for whom the ufcw is fighting for.

Unions are only as strong as their weakest members so at maple grove we have been ham strung by a bunch of caw tools who have their own agendas and no use in giving us strength in numbers and support. At warehouses where everyone is on the same page and the stewards work for the members benefit they do a lot better.

So cas if you want a strong union add to it. You get out of it what you put into it, if your looking to be nursed talk to your mommy.

Nice scare tactics boys. The drivers posting into the warehouse is the same as moving from department to department. or warehouse to warehouse. It's no different than what we have now. PT protection? BS. PT Co drivers still PT when the Co has signed contracts with outside carriers and brokers. PT working an average of 30+ hours on the average for a year without FT or FT benifits. The UFCW 1000A seems to think that we work for them and forget that they work for us.

Less money NOT unless we vote on it. We negotiate at the level we are at now because of a section 86 of the labour relations act.

quote:

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its your future, think about it, do the math

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I have done the math and UFCW comes up in the negatives, I have seen alot of people get screwed by UFCW.... that is a fact, dont tell me I havent "FED UP".

If CAW gets in all the freezer jobs will be in house first... so that means part-timers to full-timers wont it?

If CAW gets in, PineBush wont get to bump into MapleGrove... right?

Actually when you are NOT protected by the union during your PROBATION period of 90 working days.. you should NOT have to pay the UNION DUES.

No chance of transferring, 90% of the people at MapleGrove have no intensions of tranferring.

quote:

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If you want to be making less money, no guarantee for FT if your PT, stuck in Cambridge, not a lot of chance of moving up in seniority, paying more in dues, letting drivers post into the building, and watching the UFCW get the best contract within L.C.E.

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If you actually think CAW is gonna get us less money than what we are making now, you need to get your head checked out. About the drivers posting into the warehouse. If the majority of the employees dont want that then we can we can vote against it.

Isnt the CA we have now almost exactly the same as the CA that was written by Loblaws in the ErinMills incident?

CoolAsIce I think your brain is froze:

- No one can bump anyone at any other warehouses.
- AGAIN when you start working at any place that has a Union you pay Union dues right away.
- 90% of people have no intention of moving???, I think your math is wrong, I have talked to a lot of people who are very interested in Ajax.
-The C.A.W can only give empty promises, the UFCW can fix things with the upcoming new contract.

Cool if you want someone to talk to about the situation let me know, I can give you facts

quote:

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the company is free to put whatever it wants on the table.

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The Co does the same with the UFCW so what's your point?

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By the way if the caw did get more they would not need to tell people not worry they could just rest on their record, oh yeah they get less nevermind.

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It's the UFCW supporters telling people that we will start negotiating from scratch. Cause the UFCW has no decent track record. Show me What the UFCW has accomplished in the last decade that has been positive for their work force. And please don't go there with the standard grievance in arbitration because so far it is fiction not fact.

What is the average pay increase that the 1000A has negotiated in the last decade?

What is the total number of grievances outstanding within the 1000A

How many FT were hired this year vs the number of PT hired?

How many two tier wage scales has the UFCW negotiated?

Other Unanswered Questions????????????

Labour Relations Act.

Typical SR, I'm not ask'n about the CAW I'm ask'n about the UFCW. BTY Kitchener CA was NEGOTIATED BY THE STEELWORKERS RW-DSU. Isn't the rest of the RW-DSU apart of the UFCW now? See FU wants to talk about records then fine... lets talk.... answer the above.... You want me to forget about the CAW? then sell us! Answer our questions. No lies or half truths.

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if the caw did get more they would not need to tell people not worry they could just rest on their record.

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quote:

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Can he be trusted NO!

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LOL, and the UFCW can be trusted, right?

1000a yes indeed can be trusted. i almost lost my job 3 different times 1000a stuck there neck out for me more then once.

First of all let me welcome Pat.

Why is the caw called the caw it is only one third auto workers now?

So why do I want the caw in at maple grove do I really want to pick at 100% like they do at A&P?

Why has the caw never got the standard thrown out of there or peterborough did they not have the company by the balls in kitchener, guess they lied.

quote:

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posted by Strongman_Robby:

I now work at Loblaws in London and Im with U.F.C.W 175 I dont care for them but what can I do.
I have heard some good things about 1000a and there wages

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quote:

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posted by Strongman_Robby:

posted by CoolAsIce:

quote:

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and the UFCW can be trusted, right?

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I can speak for 1000a YES

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No offense, but how can someone who is not a member of 1000A claim to speak for that local and after saying he does not care for his own local (Local 175)?

Not brainwashed just enlightened. Do you have answers for my questions?

PS. liar liar pants on fire.

So SR you have a concern about the 1000A negotiating behind our backs, admit that the representation is lax, and know that the 1000A isn't properly staffed to address grievances. This is what you are getting for the same price of a cup of coffee a day?

Perhaps you should come and talk with the people who are actually getting the phone calls. People are being asked which union they support and why the CAW isn't the way to go. As well as the unprofesional way that they are conducting themselves on the phone.

Did the 1000a think that their membership doesn't want to talk about work at home. That they leave work at work so that they can spend time with their family.

quote:

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- Is this true or not. If the C.A.W becomes the Union in Maplegrove, the standards for assembly and for forks will become a expectation of 100%?
92.5% is an agreement of UFCW and Loblaws. In Peterborough and A&P it is 100% nothing less. Fed-Up has met a guy from A&P and has shed some light on this

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If the 1000a ends up winning their $500,000 investment in the fight against standards it will not be an issue for other unions.

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- What will happen to the employees in Peterborough when ( And it will ) closes? Will the C.A.W if they are the union in MG give them all there senority and make sure they have jobs?

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Isn't that work going to Ajax. So like MG the employee's just followed the work. So is the 1000A willing to give those employee's jobs at Ajax the same as the did at MG?

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- Are you afraid that if the C.A.W get in there will be hardly any movement in senority because there will be no one posting out? this is not a short-term question either.

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quote:

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- Are you afraid that if the C.A.W get in there will be hardly any movement in senority because there will be no one posting out? this is not a short-term question either.

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No I'm not worried. I've been to three different warehouses and have been at the bottom of the list on day's for the last 6 years. I haven't gone up I've actually gone down. People posting in from other warehouses with more senority then me and in turn took my upgrades that my senority normally got me into.

As for Mr Arman. I don't know his resume. And the CA your refering to the membership voted it in, It was their choice at the time under a different union. At least they got to vote.

Please go back to my other postings SR there are more.

Dougle your questions have been answered many times both here and in person the problem is you just don't get it.

Cas the kitchener part timers went from $8 to $12 per, the full timers had their 2 tier wages eliminated and the top rate went from $19/hr to over $22/hr and on top of that the union got their pension topped up with another $400,000.

The only fools I know are the ones who have said to me on the floor that even if the ufcw got them $30/hr they would turn it down just because it was an ufcw contract.

Oh so we should trust guys who would misrepresent us when they were stewards and who steal files?

I guess I will take that as a no. By the way who posted in and dropped you down on the senority list the guys from fortinos?

So the warehouse should go caw to keep people out so as to protect your seniority?

Everyone of those guys who came over were higher than me, but you do not hear me whining about it, that is the way the cookie crumbles. It is more important for people to have well paying jobs than for me to be higher on a senority lists.

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What does some of the CAW supporters lying have to do with being able to trust the CAW?

It isnt the CAW lying and misrepresenting you, is it?

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Great point CI, members should be paying attention to the system which dictates within their organization, rather than on individuals who misrepresent/abuse/misuse or are just plain incompetent.

Taking apart union constitutions and by-laws and then using whatever tools within them to make the correction.

Should members be choosing representation based on personal experience with one or more incompetents or choosing based on an organizations constitutional strength?

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The fact that these guys who acted as stewards only to sabotage things are now openly organizing for the caw tell me a more about the caw.

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Or it could tell you more about ufcw, not?

It would depend how open you are to examining the motives or reasons. If it was me, I would be very interested to know what motivated a member(s), a steward no less, to question their organization and/or it's direction.

These guys were pro caw from the begining there was no change of heart, they ran just so they could do what they did. Now we have new stewards as some were run off and others were removed by the union.

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posted by Fed Up:
These guys were pro caw from the begining there was no change of heart, they ran just so they could do what they did. Now we have new stewards as some were run off and others were removed by the union.

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FOR EXAMPLE:
DeMoN was a steward, and was a total ass about things. When he was in a interview for a member getting diciplined he would just sit there and not say anything and then blame the Union for it.
On the other hand there would be guys like Dougle who knowing did not like the UFCW would everything he could for the employee that has been diciplined.
Correct me if Im wrong but DeMoN was removed as a stewart, because he would not help anyone he just got in there to help batter the UFCW.
Even CAW supporters I know tell me they dont trust DeMoN for probally the same reason.

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How do you get appointed out of removed by the union siggy?

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It could be the way you explained it OR it could be the way you didn't explain it.

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They were voted in and after not acting the members best interest they were removed and elections were held for their replacement.

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Who and how was the process to "remove" "elected" stewards determined?

I'm fascinated, our shop has been under appointed stewards since the concessionary CA of '96. There are 250 members and 1 appointed chief shop.

We've petitioned to have elections and after a long delay and executive review and all other stall tactics, we received notice that there would be steward elections. That was about 2 months ago and we've yet to see the process.

If the stewards are elected then what's the beef FU?

quote:

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posted by Dougle:
[QB]

SR just because a steward doesn't say anything in the meeting doesn't mean that they haven't done anything. Sometimes there has already been a conversation between the steward and managment before the person comes in.

QB]

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Yes I do understand that Dougle I have been there done that.
When I represent workers sometimes I do have disscussions with the supervisor before and after.
BUT I will stop making an example of H.K after this.
He would not even fill out any paper work ( Grievence form whatever ) he would just blame the union is all. THAT IS NOT FAIR TO ANYONE.
Anyways have a good night!

Question at the thursday meeting for the caw will Buzz be serving the kool aid ala jim jones?

The gig is up the lies are being uncovered and the hats and pins are in full effect.

BRING THE VOTE
The ufcw supporters will more than welcome it.

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The gig is up the lies are being uncovered and the hats and pins are in full effect.

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Changing sides FU. The only lies that are uncovered are the ones from the UFCW and All we see are the CAW stuff. You must be at a different building if your seeing UFCW stuff.

please tell us more about the "new" standards ruling.

Is the case decided in finality?

Who made the interim order?

Is this just another appeasement tactic because the big bad wolf is at the door?

Is it coincidental that all work records are cleaned up , possibly, days before a replacement application is filed?

Tides have turned?

LOL, I work afternoon shift, still only the same few people that work mon-fri that are the sole UFCW supporters. Actually there is 1 guy on saturday that is a UFCW supporter, LOL. I asked him why he is supporting the UFCW, he said job security, yet he even told me he has seen a couple of his buddys get fired for bs reason, so I asked him how that is "job security"? His response was "I dont want them kitchener idiots running the show here!", LOL?

What the UFCW got for us so far.

Wipe of out record up untill April 14th and payment of loss wages.

A review of all employee's who have been terminated.

The arbitrator hiring an indepentant engineer to check of the system and make a report due at the end of the year. (an indever that the Co and the UFCW already went on by jointly hiring an independant engineer which came to the conclusion that the Co was right)

However

The Co still is allowed to go business as usual.

%92.5 per four week roling average minimum
%85 per week minimum

Disapline as normal.

Union has right to grieve

So what did the UFCW get for us. Money owed and another promise that they will blah, blah, blah. Nice try boyz. I hope you's didn't think that this arbitration thing would justify all the lies, concessions, etc.

You can't cover the smell of that bullsh!t with some cheap perfume. Sorry it must be the expencive perfume concidering it cost over $500,000.

FU it doesn't matter what posting I have. IF IT EFFECTS EVERYONE IT EFFECCTS ME. and in turn what effects me should effect everyone else. I could post GW or Forklift in the future.

What Ruling? The Co pays what is owed on outstanding grievances, etc, etc but The assembliers, forklift, loaders, workload is the same. They didn't get me reduced standard they just got us paid. I'm not willing to wait for one either. Besides CAW can use the arbitrators ruling if the UFCW gets one in their favour.

Different world at A&P, and Peterborough. The UFCW "activists" are telling PT that they will not be represented by the CAW? FYI At A&P the PT have their own seperate contract, so that they can address their own issues etc without having the FT vote on it and visa versa.

It's good you's came, I hope that all you guys from pinebush and Survayers are having a good time. You'll be able to see what your missing.

See I take a low attendance as a good sign that the membership at MG are already on board and don't need to be "sold".

The vote is comming and all will be said and done soon. And no matter what anyone says about SR, FU, Slic, Reebok, your all OK.

This only works if the workers are united. If they had solidarity in the warehouse then they wouldn't cross eachothers picket lines. As a unionist you should know this FU... DON'T CROSS PICKET LINES. especialy if it is one of your own.

It is a good thing to have seperate CA. Parttime can address their own issues, and get what they want without having FT vote and risk them turning down a good CA for the PT because of something the FT didn't get. And Visa Versa.

Also how many PT at MG are licenced to drive equipment ment for loading and putaway. How many of them are trained to load, receive, do put away, replenish, have propane training? So how could the work get done? Well they would first have to cross the lines and as everyone knows DON'T CROSS PICKET LINES.

You must be taking lessons from Slic your starting to sound a little like him. Well everyone needs a pay check as well as legally a union can't order anyone to not cross. If the personel that is crossing doesn't have a legal strike option then thay are obligated to go to work. But really how much work would be there for the office staff if the rest of the plant is out on the street? The union would have people on the inside to see what is going on.

Would you cross lines? What's your position on strikes? If you were out Would you help out or cross? Why is the UFCW allowing 20 postings to go up for Erinmills. Getting Scared maybe? Allowing those who don't wish to stay at MG a chance to leave?

Postings at Erin mills, less recieving at maple grove hmm have to wonder what is the future?

Anyways an interesting sight to spell out things for the members at maplegrove
http://www.ufcw4maplegrove.ca/

Yep the caw would still get a chance to bargin IF they win, but maplegrove would not have the backing of the other warehouses then or any other time in the future.

My hopes Dougle......

When: contract time
What: hopefully the fear of 'all" warehouses striking at once will give us bargaining power;much like this standards mess,precedents set through the grieveance process at 1 site will apply to all
How:because they are all the same local and contract
Where:at every 1000a warehouse,all outcomes affecting all members under the umbrella so to speak

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posted by bb:
I think that the FEAR, by Loblaws, of the CAW has already produced results.
The Union has started a website "to be more responsive". That helps and it is better that before the Caw came into the picture.
Amazing the power that money has over the Union leadership, the mere threat of dues being lost spurs such action.

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It was the same ol song and dance with the first vote we had. They put on a big show before the vote, including the ufcw4maplegrove website, which went down after the vote was over, along with all the ufcw action you speak of.

Not sure Dougle, I honestly don't know.

Didn't realize that they are. The only reason that CAW would come to Pinebush is If they where invited by some employees there. Fu the problems with UFCW are not just at MG they run throughout the warehouses. There are some and I've talked to them(friends) that are unhappy with the UFCW it seems that they think the UFCW has lost touch with their membership and no longer service their (members) needs.

How do you know they weren't invited. My brothers and sisters in there know that they will be losing a large portion of the business, which could translate into forced transfers, packages, or oh no LAYOFFS? When MG becomes CAW they may not be able to come to MG and be forced to take on of the above options. By becoming a CAW warehouse they would have a better opertunity to arrange a deal that would allow them to come into MG. The deal could allow them to transfer with their full seniority, it depend on what the membership at MG votes on.

Is the UFCW willing to negotiate a deal with CAW and LCE to allow their membership at Pinebush the option of comming to MG?

HEY!!!!!! I am on vacation right now.. Whens the dam vote?????

Isn't this vote conducted by the OLRB?

I think the reason the vote is held within 5 days of the replacement application is to prevent all the the campaigning.

Here is something from someone who was in the caw
enjoy
http://www.ufcw4maplegrove.ca/news/vidstory.html

Obviously this video was made in an attempt to directly give the UFCW's arguement as to why Maplegrove needs to remain a 1000a facility. It can easily be viewed as propaganda. I came to these same conclusions months ago about "why not the CAW".Without cohersion it simply made practical sense. I am the biggest critic of the UFCW ,if anyone remembers my postings on here, its just that what this guy was saying is exactly what I have heard said at work by the CAW organizers.Uncomfortably familiar. Coupled with that silly , CAW cultist, cd rom which was delivered to my house . The fact I found this guy believeable. The CAW just gives me the willies !!

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The very fact that dougle gets on here and says the caw will just piggyback the ufcw on standards and the caw can ask the ufcw to work out a deal for portability for caw members at maplegrove shows which union has more power.

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What power? The power to cheat its membership out of a vote? The power to take a stand against Attendance only to get us the same policy? The power to Screw UFCW day 2 members out of their seinority? The power to harrass their membership with phone calls from home? The power to.....

UFCW supporters say they CAW raids because they are to lazy to go and organise un-unionized workplaces... well UFCW can be accused of doing the same with LCE through volintary rec they don't have to organise either they just sit back and collect their dues from the employees that are delivered to their door.

They accepted concessions for the stores they will eventually do it to us in the warehouse AND WE WON"T HAVE A SAY IN THE MATTER EITHER.

Hey Dougle the caw does rec clauses the caw accepted the same RCSS deal out east under the same threat take this or we close the stores.

oh another thing you could have asked the person above you who was day 2 to trade jobs if it bothers you to have the job you have.

bb, Just heard the UFCW has withdrawn your grievance, and without an investigation

If I recall you have 17 years in the company and after one offence were suspended for eight weeks and then permanently demoted.

I think we would all like to hear an update on this if you feel you can.

Hey Maplegrove pay attention this is the UFCW at it's best.

Concessions for the members without a vote, non representation for members who are disciplined, leadershit that are not voted in by the members but appointed.

Vote this bunch out now, their record stands for itself, and then let the CAW know that you will do it again if you feel you are not being represented.

It's time to take the power away from the individuals who have become power hungry and wealthy on our backs and give it back to us the workplace contributors.

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[A 17 year employee with an absolutely clean work record with a doctors note demoted permanently after an 8 week suspension without pay..................... for using one sick day.
/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]My Union Rep told me on Tues April 27 at general membership meeting that the grievance committee will be withdrawing my grievance based on a legal opinion.

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Is that legal opinion based on advise of the Union lawyer who represented the UFCW at your DFR at the OLRB who was just recently hired by the OLRB as a vice chair ?

[QUOTE] [Most CLC-affiliated unions hate Buzz Hargrove and the CAW.
/QUOTE]

Of coarse they do because they (CAW) don't tow the line, What is being toted here is vote UFCW because they are strong, Which they are in fact so powerful that their own lawyers are sitting on the OLRB.

Now you tell me how I can expect a fair ruling as a member from the OLRB, Talk about conflict of interest.

Heaven forbid, MG goes C.A.W Dougle your going to be screwed trust me you dont see it there, but look at the big picture.

USE YOUR BRAIN!

UFCW is the best union for National grocers

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UFCW is the best union for National grocers

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You are absolutely right Strongman_Robby, The UFCW is the best Union for NG.

Now how about an argument for the members.

Well Fu,

The day of the vote was the OLRB decision.

The UFCW and LCE already argued infront of the board on Friday to have it switched to a Thursday. I wonder if they carpooled together?

They argued that their are more people working on Thursday than on Tuesday. One Thursday 200 people are off on Tuesday 300 people are off. A difference of 100. The OLRB stated that the people off those days are both UFCW and CAW supporters and their is no real reason why the vote should be held on a Thursday, hence the vote is on Tuesday. I wonder why would LCE be down their arguing the same arguement as UFCW? I though that they had to be impartial? That whole colusion thing.

Those people that are off on those days will come in and vote if it is important to them.

If you don't want those " dishonest men" to represent you in anyway than I suggest that you not vote for them and nominate your own canadiates. Vote em out.

As far as the part-time thing LCE has hired a few more PT in the last couple of weeks and they are being asked to vote only if they know what's going on and know what's at stake. Make an informed decision. Not one based on " we are the ones who got you this job..." Why does the UFCW want people who were hired only a week ago to vote anyways? Is that the UFCW way?

Again I ask you what has the CAW lied about?
also Why can't the UFCW "... stand on our record"?
How does UFCW know what's going to happen when the CAW takes the building?

The UFCW can only use fear tactics to swing votes because they are a poor union and can't run on their record because their record sucks.

To all CAW supporters stick with the card you signed and you'll be taken care of.

FU I'll see ya Tuesday.