Can't stop what you started Buzz
Well, Hargrove certainly gets this year's Fleeing Weasel Award for turning tail and disappearing back into a hole in the ground but I will say this: He started something and I don't think it's going to stop now that he and Andy Stern have kissed and made up. Before the SEIU-CAW "matter", nobody had ever heard much about union democracy. Now it's on the screens of a whole lot of people. People who aren't even union members are talking about it. Too bad for all the boys at the club, but the train has left the station. This is a really good opportunity for reformers to further raise awareness about their cause.
What's really sad about the whole affair is that Buzz rallied the "sound thinkers" for a fight for justice, including AUPE'S Dan MacLennan and then left them standing in the parking lot facing the Canadian Labour Club all by themselves.
MacLennan stood by Buzz and echoed the need for the end to rank-and-file ownership by labour's overlords.
MacLennan didn't cave with Buzz, he is standing by what is right. He upholds the principal that union members are human beings and as such are entitled to human rights--like the right to choose the union which will represent them.
He has a good message at: http://www.aupe.org/pres.pdf
Here goes nothing...
How the he** does this work?
Some SEIU members leave and sign with CAW = CAW members right.
Buzz is hailed a hero.
CLC gives Buzz and the works the boot.
CLC and Buzz 'kiss and make up' behind a
facade of autonomy.
Did the members, who voted to get out, get to vote if they want to revert back to the SEIU?
Are they SEIU members who have been manipulated or CAW members who have been fooled?
The way things stand right now (as far as I can tell anyway) is this:
Buzz gets to keep all the SEIU members he signed up (about 10,000 or maybe more) or "raided" from the SEIU. The remaining members of bargaining units in the disputed locals will have a year in which to vote - if they want to - on whether they want to join the CAW. I'm really unclear on how this will work and, of course, there isn't a lot of information floating around about the "Andy and Buzz matter". I'm not clear, for instance, if they all just get a vote or if each unit first has to vote on whether or not there will be a vote. It wouldn't surprise me if there was some silly provision like that attached so as to discourage many of these votes from happening.
I think that what happened was Buzz had signed up a load of new members (probably about half of the entire total) and figured, what the hey, the rest will either follow along anyway or won't. No sense investing any more resources into this market expansion (let's use the language of business since that's what it was all about). He'd made big inroads into the health care sector (a sought after piece of turf among Ontario unions), scored a ton of publicity, brought in thousands of new dues paying members - time to go on vacation. Shame on him. Here are some words you can make him eat:
This link is from the CAW web site and features excerps from speeches made by Buzz and AUPE President Dan MacLellan (mentioned in weiser's post above) at a public appearance the two made in the fall of last year. You'll maybe want to save this page since almost all information about the "CAW-SEIU matter" has been expunged from the CAW web site ("It never happened, people.") They must have overlooked this gem. Great quotable material.
http://www.caw.ca/news/videonews/recent/000929.cfm
I guess this is all okay now that buzz and the caw are going after a ufcw workplace.
I guess it is okay that the very same thing you get upset with the ufcw leaders doing is okay as long as they do it against the ufcw.
Research the seiu deal and you see a few people at the top benefitted and the members came along for the ride.
The same with the RWDSU deal someone on top benefits the rest just get to ride along with their leader.
This fight for justice will go on forever UNLESS leaders start to think outside their "box". Maclennan made this committment and guess what... he has stuck with it and continues to fight for his membership. He has a "nose" for when to "bite" at his opponents, and is great a squeezing deals for the most important folks...his members.
http://www.aupe.org/website_links/Sublinks/nupge.htm
I have a couple of questions how may times has the AUPE come in to this type of conflict with another union?
Did each and every member vote on this or was it repersentative voting?
If you really want to know, ask Dan. He's a straight shooter, and damned approachable.
I was curious but some how I do not see a public sector union engaging in as many territoral battles as the caw.
So far I have come across about 5 unions the caw has either raided or struck a deal with members in leadership positions to acquire.
Alot is made of democracy and I have no problem with that I think responsible leadership is more important myself.
While doing some reading the last few months I came across some interesting stuff, and it does make perfect sense, when coupled with some workplace incidents at my place of employment.Take a read for yourself is this the democracy you want?
Information is now filtering out of the ranks which indicates a strong-arm influence behind the *loyalty*.
One president said,'our little local cannot challenge the CAW in Windsor.' This from one who is normally outspoken!!
Another, usually outspoken delegate who explained that because of the gravity of the issue, she was turning her delgation responsibilitlies over to her executive members. This, of course after she had been lobbied by the CAW. guess what kind of lobbying?
Talking openly to some of these delegates we learn about the heavy hand of some CAW people who concentrated a lobby effort on all other delegations, explaining with graphic elloquence what the power base in Windsor is.
There are those who may consider such tactics threatening. I am one of them. In spite of all this heavy handed pressure, one brave soul voted against the bullies, with a few abstaining.
Then, the miracle of Chatham evolved! It didn't collapse like Windsor. The Chatham meeting involved the regular affiliate delegates seated in expectant anticipation and surrounded by about 40 CAW people, many from Windsor, standing around the walls with arms folded in intimidating fashion. Some of the female delegates expressed feelings of terror. The pressure was on.
One of the CAW spokespersons, Fred Lamont, CAW Local 195 from Windsor, not even a delegate to the Chatham Council, expained in his forceful way what had happened at the Windsor meeting, and urged the Chatham delegates to do the same.
The Chatham delegates, however, claiming they were a CLC Council and opted to stay as such, with an open invitation for CAW guests to attend with voice but no vote.
This was unacceptable for the CAW who strong-armed their own delegates to not participate.
So much for Hargrove's constant harping on his *Principled Democracy*. To me, I would think, it is, rather, the kind of democracy perfected by people Hitler. Hitler was elected too. So, according to Hagrove, if you are democratically elected, whatever you do is democratic. Hitler felt the same way.
Having spoken to people who have witnessed some of these tactics being applied, it becomes clear, then, about how the Hargrove *Information* show gains such overwhelming *democractic* support. All of the actions suggest that his loyal followers are being instucted to support him, or else. What other explanation is there?
In Windsor, Ken Lewenza made the threatening remark at council to the effect that if you don't support us, you are the enemy!
One delegate took exception to this, and sent a letter to Hargrove about it. Hargrove answered the letter almost immediately, supporting Lewenza's position with the remark that if you don't support us, you are the enemy!!! Go figure. And this is the man who claims the high ground on democracy. Claims to want to unite the labour movement, into what, I don't know.
http://www.labournet.net/world/0010/caw2.html
We are already seeing some strong arm techniques such as shouting and screaming at ufcw supporters,threats of violence for those who wish to fix things and post here and work place vandalism but I should add this is done by both sides, I think though that this would not happen as often if people did not feel intimidated.
What is going on in my workplace is definantly not doing anything to help the labour movement nor is it supporting worker solidarity.
Threatening people into voting for what you want is not democracy north american style.
What the hell does that have to do with this thread? 
Just another example of democracy buzz's style that I think people with whom I work with should should be aware of.
Fed Up you cannot possibly be a lone warehouseman who came accross this site on a tip from a co-worker and be privy to all that info about the inner workings of the CAW and the UFCW and my recent complaint developments.
If honesty is important to you, as you claim, come clean, unless of course you only claim to be honest and couldn't give a rats ass about honesty.
If you are not honest and you represent the UFCW that is a good indication for a change.
Who are you? Were do you get all the info?
My real name is Daniel like I said EDelio, Dougle Demon and Slic know me. As far as all the info I get 2 things I love to read wether it be print or electronic and the web is a great place to do research.
By the way you mentioned wages sliding back over the last 20 years, by how much have your wages slid back?
You see it is not what you make but what you can buy with it, like for example because the prime rate is about a quarter of what was 20 years ago you can afford a better home now.
You did not read about my recent complaint online. You asked when the date was, and if I had appealed, after that I informed you that the decision was online ,dated Jan 8 2004.
Think for a minute, before you reply, why did the person tell you about that aspect of my complaint.
There is only one answer, so that you would come here and espouse the UFCW position.
If you are a believer in the UFCW, which you seem to be, are you being used?
You are quite active here and people can see that, would they give you info that they did not want aired?
If you are really interested I can fax all 20 pages to you personally if you contact me.
Actually I did read it on line at the link I provided which is not working for some reason probably will later this week I figure when they update the site again.
To tell you the truth if you can prove discrimination all the more power to you I just think it will be hard that is all.
I do not have a fax machine but your more than welcome to email it.
