I have asked this question now so many times that I've lost count: What are the UFCW's values? What, as an organization, does it believe in? What does it value? What is its number one priority?
This should not be a difficult question for people who are very supportive of a particular organization to answer. Why can't I get an answer from any of these UFCW fans?
Selling the UFCW
Okay, okay--the UFCW trolls and UFCW supporters have loads to say about the fact they love the UFCW. Some of them are literally orgasmic about the UFCW. 
Is the UFCW really all that well respected by other labour organizations (other than the SEIU)? If they are really all that well respected, why is it?
Perhaps some of these UFCW supporters could give us a sales pitch on the UFCW. Tell us why all the "bad" stuff is insignificant and what good stuff should blind us to UFCW "oddities".
What an odd statement, selling the UFCW. In my 25 years of representing workers, I've never looked at it as a sales job. It's been a belief. It's always been about workers, not things.Guess I can only speak for myself as one of those UFCW supporters.
Why the UFCW? Because they were there. When I first put a Union card in my wallet at age 16, I knew it was a good thing. Because as i got active in my Union, I was able to become a steward, serve on negotiating committees and picket in front of nursing homes.They encouraged us to take classes and learn how to represent workers. It was all facinating stuff for a guy who made a living putting produce on a shelf.
Our values? what a strange question. Workers rights, improving wages and benefits, fighting for dignity in the workplace; the list goes on and my guess is you know it as well as i do.The problem is, today there are those who want the labor movement to go away. Employers know that once we're gone, they'll do as they please.
With each passing day i see the the labor movements demise. As a society, we've got too many people who care only about themselves. Workers should be fighting to get into Unions': they're not. It's easy to place blame, but that insures we'll only have less.
Here's the bad news for MFD fans, it's not just the UFCW who can't find the answers. I've seen no Union that has been able to make any real progress. The UFCW has its faults, but has done more for workers than the sum total of its sins.
I also realize the enormous potential we have if we could ever get it together.
For example, we've used the internet to put everything in our members hands we've done across the bargaining table.They've been awesome. Imagine what happens when we start using that strategy from union to union. I understand the concern of the leadership of empowering the membership, but if we don't start, there won't be anything left to save.
I've said this before on MFD, and I'll close with it. The labor movement wasn't built on negativity. Eventually anger burns out. Positive energy, and a burning passion to create something will be the catalyst for change.If we can ever find a way to channel our beliefs and work together, we won't be stopped. Working to destroy the existing structure only insures none of us will ever succeed.
quote "With each passing day i see the the labor movements demise. As a society, we've got too
many people who care only about themselves. Workers should be fighting to get into. Unions': they're not. It's easy to place blame, but that insures we'll only have less."quote
Bill, A large part of the problem for me personally is the fact that there is no accountability to the members. Why were we not informed as to the monetary aspects of the business agents contracts. I for one want to know how much we are paying them and what additional perks they are receiving. I feel some of the compensation that they receive is way beyond what I as a dues paying member would agree to in a contract. One example is free gas for personal use up to 500 miles from their office and free 24 /7 use of the vechicle.
Why can't they pick up their vechicle from a compound when they start their day and drop it off when they are off duty . I really resent having to pay for all their gas when they are going skiing ,playing golf ,shopping with their spouses or any other personal trips.
Business agents contracts should be negotiated by an indepentent negotiator not Brooke Sundin as he in my opinion is in a direct conflit of interest between what is best value for the members dollars and keeping his staff very happy!!! If you keep all your hired help over paid. the chances are very slim that any one would oppose any thing that is put before them.
If anyone could appreciate what it is like for Bill to come to the MFD site and speak up and/or step out of the UFCW line, it would be me! (there are others but they can speak for themselves).
I understand pretty well that what you say or who you say it to matters in UFCW!
I have a lawsuit to prove it!
IMHO I would say I have more to lose by speaking up than someone in Bill's position. How many high paying union official positions are out there compared to decent paying retail positions?
That said, the inference that letting by-gones be by-gones as the only way to save the movement is just plain silly.
No-one is arguing that union isn't the right thing, and the only viable option for the Power Source. Biz-unionism has spiraled out of control.
This is not about a few dissident members with opposing views here, this is a massive movement away from biz-unionism. We are here because the members no longer have control of their future!
quote:
With each passing day i see the the labor movements demise. As a society, we've got too many people who care only about themselves. Workers should be fighting to get into Unions': they're not. It's easy to place blame, but that insures we'll only have less
Is it the opposing view that is responsible and will ultimately be the demise of unions?
From my vantage, it is the slow demise of unionism that is responsible for the opposing view. This is not a chicken and egg question!
Workers should be fighting to get into unions why aren't they?
quote:
Positive energy, and a burning passion to create something will be the catalyst for change.If we can ever find a way to channel our beliefs and work together, we won't be stopped.
No-one could have said MFD better!
quote:
Working to destroy the existing structure only insures none of us will ever succeed.
Are you saying that reform is destructive?
I'm definitely not going to put words in Bill's mouth. I'll just say what I understand from his words. I may be wrong.
I sense that Bill is saying that the MFD spirit is fuelled by anger and that anger will evenutally burn out.
How can that be? We are angry with employers who take advantage of us and who try to line their pockets at out expense. We get angry with employers who treat us as if we are too stupid to understand what is best for us. We get angry when employers push us around and punish us without just cause. That anger never dies or "burns out." If it did, then unions would burn out--would they not?
I've read it here that unions are oligarchies. They are not two-party democratic systems. Unions rarely tolerate rank-and-file opposition. I think the CAW and perhaps CUPE have opposition caucuses if I'm not mistaken. What would Canadian or American democratic systems be like if there were no opposition parties? Why is it so wrong for unions to have them?
Are the Republicans angry when they don't agree with the Domocrats, Bill? Do they burn out? No, of course they don't. Neither do Canada's Liberal, Conservative or NDP parties.
I've compiled a list of the email addresses of about 60 local UFCW union prez's, sec-T's, and communication directors. maybe they should be formally invited to this site?
come to think of it, over the years I've had occasional emails with several of the international staff. still got 'em on file.
Sounds like we could have ourselves a virtual convention DriveOn. I like the idea myself. What say others?
One quick note, and a longer one.
The quick note:
Remote & Drive-On: I certainly don't think it would hurt to send invite some more UFCW officers and staff here to chat. However, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them already know about it, and are just steering clear (or posting under pseudonyms).
I doubt that many of them would be quite as ballsy as Bill Pearson in coming here to take us on and state their case directly. Particularly since the International is currently suing this site. But by all means, it's worth a try.
The longer note:
I'd like to respond to Troll's post, although it means I'm going to wander slightly off topic to this thread. But what's been said here touches pretty close to some general concerns I've had for a while about the whole union reform gig. I'd welcome responses, and maybe we can start a new thread if this goes too far afield of the "Selling the UFCW" topic.
So here goes.
Troll (and others who've expressed similar ideas):
I'm not sure about the analogy of union reform caucuses to that opposition parties in liberal democratic countries. I wonder whether unions can really be compared to stable countries during peace time, or if it is better to think of them as countries at war. The problem is that as long as there's capitalism, there's always a boss to fight. And right now there's also a sea of non-union workers to organize.
When a country goes to war, most political parties tend to rally around the flag and unite against their common enemy. We, of course, aren't doing that here. And I worry that if we get caught up fighting harsh, internal battles then we might lose focus on our other fights. I'm afraid that some of the muckraking we do on this site, while really valuable for current union members, might be detrimental to bringing in new members. If an employer or anti-union consultant mines this site for information, can they not re-use it selectively in ways we don't intend? If an article from this site, taken out of context, resurfaces in Minnesota, might it dissuade a retail worker from joining Bill Pearson's UFCW local? I don't think that's what we really want.
On the other hand, I don't think the war analogy is exact, either. While the UFCW fights employers like Walmart tooth and nail, they seem to have reached something of a detente with the big grocery chains. But the workers don't seem to be gaining much from the labour peace. Further, unlike in traditional international wars, we workers face an incredible fear that our leaders will betray us to the other side to protect their own positions. That threat only cuts one way, too. When was the last time you ever heard of an employer taking a bribe from the union to sell out his shareholders?
With all these things on my mind, I tend to take a historical perspective on this issue. Some of the greatest periods of strength for unions have correlated with some of the most vigorous democratic debates within the movement. From the turn of the century when the IWW challenged the old AFL, and when the AFL and CIO were duking things out in the 1930s and 40s, millions of new workers joined unions and we offered a genuine hope for social change. I want to believe that another strong, democratic opposition movement among the ranks could stimulate a new period of strength and growth for the union movement.
But still, I have my concerns. I hope that on this site we can strike a balance between celebrating union leaders (including those in the UFCW) when they take new initiatives, promote organizational change, and do the right thing for workers; and also holding them accountable for their failures.
Siggy: I'm not saying reform is bad.However, when the only way to accomplish it is by being destructive, you in essence insure the movement will go no where. As I've viewed some of the good things about this site, i've fantasized about the potential of the best of reformers working with the best of the current Union structures.It could be awesome to learn from each other.
I realize that's a fools dream. At least today. Let me go out on a leash and get myself in trouble. I hate the lawsuit. I also hate the attacks on Union leaders. Having said that, i accept the fact that both "sides" are entitled to carve each other up. That doesn't mean i'll sit quietly and watch it happen. I understand what each is trying to do, unfortunately, the only winners will be the employers.
I've folllowed the reformers for years. If the labor movement was as bad as they say, there would be a massive movement to them. Here's the sad facts, there isn't. Usually there is a handful of zealots( i say that with all due respect),who are idealists, and they believe they can change the world. I know, i've been told too many times i am one. That's why i try to limit my scope to the things i can change.
My frustration is we could be so much more if we could ever find a way to work together. I wouldn't for one minute suggest that anyone is going to let bygones be bygones. That's not my place. I won't try and put myself in either of your shoes. I do believe that when people communicate openly and honestly with one another,there is always hope. Hell that's what the labor movement was built on, hope for a better tomorrow.
Just the discusssion in this thread is encouraging. In the end things will go on one way or another. I've lived my life doing the best i can each day. If my being here gets us talking, respecting each others postions, then its a quantum leap forward.There is only one real side, that's the workers.
Bill, the reason why reform never got far before is because business unions had the might to crush reform. The machine also controlled communication.
The Internet is changing that. We're not talking about one law suit, we are talking about a bunch of law suits and more than six law firms who have sent threatening letters. In the past one letter from a lawyer did the trick. That just ain't the case anymore.
The ability to communicate and network freely will bring about change. Not much happened to reform until the printing press, the Internet will be the next big change.
There's a new dawn commin'. Unions can't sweep dirt under the rug or keep information local anymore.
Bill Wynn's house deal was known throught the upper ranks of the UFCW, and by members in the D.C. area who read the Washington Post. However, the news never seeped further than a small north-eastern area of the US. Today that sort of news is all over the World thanks to the Internet.
Bill, you are not run of the mill. You pride yourself in sharing information. In doing so, you show that you respect your members. You are not the norm. If you were, I'd question the other visitors to this site as to what the hell their problem was. They have legitimate beefs that can't be corrected with the current system.
The MFD started as a group that tried to use the system and the system failed them.
If this group of reformers was just another inneffective, rag-tag group of rabble rousers, then the UFCW wouldn't be spending the money it is to crush them.
Unions won't disappear, and all unions may not change, but you've heard Doug Dority say, "Change or get out of the way".
We're not livin' in the same old, same old anymore. Don't expect things to be as they always have been. People will be gettin' out of the way because reform is comming.
globalize_this and weiser: there's been some good exchange, and i do believe in the power of the net, but it has it's limitations. It's a vehicle, but there has to be more. The foundation has to be grounded in face-to face, day-to-day interactions. As much information as we gave the members over the last month, only has value if they show up and vote at one of the 5 ratification meetings tomorrow. And that's only the beginning. Members need to take ownership in their Unions.Too many members think because they pay dues, their responsibility ends.
Let me leave you with this final thought about how the reform movement can become a real force.................If the only way to make yourself look good, is to make the other guy look bad, then what are you really bringing?
quote:
posted by Bill Pearson:
If the only way to make yourself look good, is to make the other guy look bad, then what are you really bringing?
Exactly. And the UFCW is trying to make its own members look bad by filing SLAPP lawsuits against them.
I think Bill is presenting us with the old 'a bad Bernie is better than no Bernie' argument. 
He wasn't around (I don't think) when we had that one.
No matter how you cut it, as a member, I appreciate all the information. I do not want it filtered, censored, secreted or any other ed.
I want a union free of corruption, where members prosper along with the hired help. Can that happen the way biz-unions are now?
I thought i was clear when i said i hated the lawsuit.I'm afraid you're assuming i like the way things are now. If I thought things were running well, i wouldn't be on this site. I think there's a hybred of what is and what could be, just waiting to surface and bloom.
quote:
I thought i was clear when i said i hated the lawsuit.I'm afraid you're assuming i like the way things are now.
No, I am not assuming anything. I appreciate your distaste for the lawsuit but that doesn't change much. I certainly respect your efforts/work but I have reservations about what it will accomplish.
quote:
If I thought things were running well, i wouldn't be on this site. I think there's a hybred of what is and what could be, just waiting to surface and bloom.
And if things were running well I wouldn't be on this site either.
So what is the impasse? What could I do differently to change what needs to be changed?
Bill:
quote:
Why the UFCW? Because they were there.
Now that's a good reason for choosing a union. Oh! Pardon me... there was no choice. /sarcasm
quote:
Our values? what a strange question.
^^ And therein lies the problem.
quote:
With each passing day i see the the labor movements demise.
Demise? There hasn't been a labour movement for years. We've got the same stale-old "leaders" we had a decade ago. That's not movement, that's stagnation.
quote:
As a society, we've got too many people who care only about themselves.
Agreed.
quote:
Workers should be fighting to get into Unions': they're not. It's easy to place blame, but that insures we'll only have less.
Worker are fighting to get out of unions, and they have every right and reason to. This does not insure "that we'll only have less". It insures that you'll have less and you'll have to fight to keep what you do have. We've got nothing left to lose.
quote:
I also realize the enormous potential we have if we could ever get it together.
Ok. What are you doing, as a UFCW Local President, to see this idea into fruition on a national level?
quote:
Positive energy, and a burning passion to create something will be the catalyst for change.
Welcome to the club Bill! 
DriveOn:
quote:
I've compiled a list of the email addresses of about 60 local UFCW union prez's, sec-T's, and communication directors. maybe they should be formally invited to this site?
Go for it!
I'll put my mods' on high-alert!
globalize_this:
quote:
The problem is that as long as there's capitalism, there's always a boss to fight.
I think that's just a flaw in peoples' perceptions and subsequent actions in pursuit of capitalism as an ideology.
This isn't a true capitalist society anyways. The markets don't determine the economy, the policy makers do.
quote:
I'm afraid that some of the muckraking we do on this site, while really valuable for current union members, might be detrimental to bringing in new members.
And that's bad because????
quote:
If an article from this site, taken out of context, resurfaces in Minnesota, might it dissuade a retail worker from joining Bill Pearson's UFCW local? I don't think that's what we really want
(this is not an attack on your local Bill. I'm speaking generally.)
What do you do when a business doesn't serve your interests anymore?
You shop elsewhere.
What do you do when a business employs practices that don't comply with your ethics and morals?
You shop elsewhere.
And, while you're shopping elsewhere do you still recomend the business that you're boycotting to your friends and colleagues?
I don't think so.
Hit 'em where it hurts. In both cases, business and union, that soft spot appears to be the pocket-book - the bottom-line - the dues unit.
You don't seriously think a crappy union is going to clean up it's act voluntarily do you?
Bill:
quote:
I'm not saying reform is bad.However, when the only way to accomplish it is by being destructive, you in essence insure the movement will go no where.
Well, what do you do when the "movement" (as you define it) is destructive?
quote:
Usually there is a handful of zealots( i say that with all due respect),who are idealists, and they believe they can change the world.
It's cumulative Bill.
quote:
and i do believe in the power of the net, but it has it's limitations.
No. There are no limitations until the oppressors impose them. We're (un)lucky enough to be witnessing/subject to an attempt right now.
quote:
The foundation has to be grounded in face-to face, day-to-day interactions.
So says you, but you're from the old-school (not the old old old school mind you. ). I do applaud your attempts to embrace and utilize new technology but old-school limitations don't apply and you'd do best not to impose them upon yourself.
Time will tell.
quote:
If the only way to make yourself look good, is to make the other guy look bad, then what are you really bringing?
There's your fundamental mistake. Are we making the other guy look bad, or are we telling the truth?
siGGy:
quote:
I appreciate all the information. I do not want it filtered, censored, secreted or any other ed.
Ditto.
Bill has a point about face to face interaction...it is important...almost required...at the end of the day everything done on the net is just text...you are still just sitting at a keyboard. People really heavily on social interaction...they require it...the internet can supply information over a great distance...but it can't compensate for good old fashioned face to face conversation
I think you guys, especially Laura are way off base.
If you think the union reps, have a easy job, you guys are very wrong. They don't work 8 hr days, but much longer!!
Can you imagine listening to whining,complaining members that don't want to help themselves. or are forever saying do this, or that, but don't mention my name!!!
As for Rep's having a car, these cars aren't free, and they are a taxable benifit. If you checked most large corporations or unions, most employees have cars.
I think that a lot of you should try working 10 hrs or more a day, and having to not only listen to complaints, but also have to babysit members.
I think that they deserve what they get, and I think we should be more helpful, and supportive of them.
I bet all you complainers couldn't last very long working under the conditions that they do.
Remember that everything isn't always greener on the other side!!
I think you guys, especially Laura are way off base.
If you think the union reps, have a easy job, you guys are very wrong. They don't work 8 hr days, but much longer!!
Can you imagine listening to whining,complaining members that don't want to help themselves. or are forever saying do this, or that, but don't mention my name!!!
As for Rep's having a car, these cars aren't free, and they are a taxable benifit. If you checked most large corporations or unions, most employees have cars.
I think that a lot of you should try working 10 hrs or more a day, and having to not only listen to complaints, but also have to babysit members.
I think that they deserve what they get, and I think we should be more helpful, and supportive of them.
I bet all you complainers couldn't last very long working under the conditions that they do.
Remember that everything isn't always greener on the other side!!
quote:
Can you imagine listening to whining,complaining members that don't want to help themselves. or are forever saying do this, or that, but don't mention my name!!!
Uhhh... that's their job. You know, what they are paid to do.
quote:
I bet all you complainers couldn't last very long working under the conditions that they do.
Yeah, I'd be promoted to the presidency in about 10 minutes for kicking sooooooooo much ass!
edit: needed another smilie
quote:
posted by <canadagirl>:
I think you guys, especially Laura are way off base.
If you think the union reps, have a easy job, you guys are very wrong. They don't work 8 hr days, but much longer!!
Can you imagine listening to whining,complaining members that don't want to help themselves. or are forever saying do this, or that, but don't mention my name!!!
As for Rep's having a car, these cars aren't free, and they are a taxable benifit. If you checked most large corporations or unions, most employees have cars.
I think that a lot of you should try working 10 hrs or more a day, and having to not only listen to complaints, but also have to babysit members.
I think that they deserve what they get, and I think we should be more helpful, and supportive of them.
I bet all you complainers couldn't last very long working under the conditions that they do.
Remember that everything isn't always greener on the other side!!
Give me a break! Shop stewards listen to problems all day for free and possibly a day off to attend Stewards school or the odd convention.
If the MR job was so unbearable and only the finest could survive, then why isn't there a high rated of turnover?
Most MRs aren't trained to present arbitrations, or WCB appeals, or present at Employment Standards tribunals. They don't know their own contracts never mind current labour law. They don't know enough about how businesses operate. They run on anecdotes to try and figure out what is going on.
So they attend the odd late meeting. It isn't every night. If most of them were honest and actually tracked their time, many would only produce four or five hours of billable time.
MRs are extremely well paid and commpensated when you consider their level of education, their training, their marketable skills and their general knowedge. There are shop stewards who work harder for free.
The fact that MRs stay for life is a testement to the fact the job is pretty damned fine compared to working in a store, warehouse or plant.
And Bill said:
quote:
Let me leave you with this final thought about how the reform movement can become a real force.................If the only way to make yourself look good, is to make the other guy look bad, then what are you really bringing?
Bill do you make employers look bad? Do you paint them in a favourable light?
Bill, I think you look pretty damned good in comparison to many other union leaders. However, I don't buy all of your arguments, but I believe that you're closer to what a union leader should be than what we see on an average day.
I know you can't be saying that corruption should be left alone to fester. I know that you can't be saying that we say good things about those who perpetrate corruption.
I don't expect you to point out corruption either. But do you really think that if the International decided to trustee your local that you would have a hope in hell of turning that decsion around through "internal" processes? Again, I don't expect you to answer becuase you are not free to say anything you want.
I'll give you full credit for having more guts than any other UFCW leader by comming here and saying some very bold things. Just by admitting that everything isn't okay, is very bold.
And BTW, I don't know about your Business Agents, I'm speaking about the Canadian Business Agents that I know.
Yikes canadagirl! Can you imagine doctors ragging on their patients for being sick, or lawyers chastising their clients for being in trouble with the law, or psychologists berating their clients for having problems, or any one of dozens of other analogies along these lines. Why do the union reps exist if not to serve the members? Serving them means listening to their concerns and finding solutions that work for the members. Those who find their way into these jobs should be happy to serve others - or maybe they should find work in an occupation where it's OK to be self-serving.
quote:
I think you guys, especially Laura are way off base.
You can think what you want, but MR's using members dues to fund their personal transportation needs is exactly what Laura says "is way beyond what I as a dues paying member would agree to"!
quote:
If you think the union reps, have a easy job, you guys are very wrong. They don't work 8 hr days, but much longer!!
How do you know this? Is this first hand information? Are you an MR? Is this what MR's tell you?
quote:
Can you imagine listening to whining,complaining members that don't want to help themselves. or are forever saying do this, or that, but don't mention my name!!!
Not much respect for members in your words Canadagirl, if they are your words.You do have a point though. If being an MR is what you want, do not whine and complain. Follow your MR around and hang on every word, and after just 3 or 4 short years as a new hire you could find yourself traveling to Ottawa on an all expenses paid extensive youth training program. And if you are really silent and don't ask questions or complain you could be appointed to the executive upon your return.
Whining and complaining, as you put it is subjective and would depend whether you want to get ahead in the union or get some decent representation from your MR.
quote:
As for Rep's having a car, these cars aren't free, and they are a taxable benifit. If you checked most large corporations or unions, most employees have cars.
Why would you compare MR's perks to corporate perks? MR's are the hired help.
quote:
I think that a lot of you should try working 10 hrs or more a day, and having to not only listen to complaints, but also have to babysit members.
Again, are you an MR and speak from experience? From where do you draw your disrespectful conclusions?
quote:
I think that they deserve what they get, and I think we should be more helpful, and supportive of them.
How much more supportive can we be than 70K plus?
quote:
I bet all you complainers couldn't last very long working under the conditions that they do.
Give me a break! Geez!
quote:
Remember that everything isn't always greener on the other side!!
This is an odd statement. Why do you suggest the MR's are on the other side. I thought we were on the same side! 
I'll bet employers think that Stewards are whiners and complainers. I'll bet they think M.R.s are whiners and complainers too.
How does one get to be a M.R.? By whining and complaining.
How damned elitist. When one gets to be an M.R. who costs the membership well over $100 thousand to keep (consider a car lease at $600 per month. That $600 is after income-tax money. The M.R.s are in the 50% tax bracket, so to get the $600 to pay for the luxury vehicle, he or she would have to make and addional $14,400 per year to net the vehicle lease.). Consider the multiple pensions too. How many members get two pensions?
I agree with Remote Viewer. What is a Business Agent, if he or she is not a person who is paid to listen to people's problems and attempt to fix them in accordance with the CA and what is right and just?
If your M.R. is telling you that he or she works over eight hours everyday, tell him or her to prove it. Do the members get extra for going to union meetings? The M.R.s begged to be UFCW members in addition to being Steelworkers members. Why do they get paid to go to UFCW meetings? How long has it been since any of them went to a Steelworkers' meeting?
M.R.s have it made in the shade. You know it Canadagirl, and I know it. If it wasn't such a nice cushy job, why the long lineup of ass-kissers trying to get the next job. Why are the jobs held out as pacifiers for "troublemakers"?
OK we seem to have wandered well off the original topic.
Slek has started a thread over here: Face2Face vs Text - Cage Match which continues at least part of the last conversation. We should take our comments on this topic over there. I've also started a thread: union reform or union revolution, which might be a good place to talk about some other issues.
But for this thread here, the topic is "Selling the UFCW." So let me pose a question to Bill, Scott Lester, Canada Girl, tug, and anyone else out there who considers themselves a UFCW supporter.
Suppose I represent a committee of unorganized workers that want to bring a union into our store/plant/office/nursing home.
Further, we're doing things the right way. We're not just going to join the first union we hear about. We're inviting you, a representative of the UFCW, to give us a brief presentation on why we should join your organization. Keep in mind you're not the only union we will be talking to. So we need to hear more than just a general statement about why unions are good. We need to know why we should choose your union over another one. Also be aware that we've done our research, and we may ask you some tough questions about voluntary recognition, hotel deals, etc.
But for now, though, you have the floor and the benefit of our doubt. So how about it?
Sorry Brother
About Unions:
I agree but think we need to talk about it on another thread. I've started this one union reform or union revolution?
Here on this thread, I want to talk about selling the UFCW. Because I still haven't heard an answer. So how about it? What do you UFCW supporters tell non-union workers about your union?
So much of that question is an obvious, i hate to take the time to reply. There are 100s of the thousands of Union retail grocery workers who have wages and benefits better than other retail workers. I've sited the comparisons from the Twin Cities, but those stats. are repeated across large cities all across the US and Canada. Retired union grocery and meat workers are drawing hundreds of millions of dollars in pension checks. Employer paid health insurance is a standard in most UFCW contracts. Every day in this country and Canada, grievances and arbitrations are settled that award members back pay and reinstatement of their jobs.
Better yet, from a different thread, we give our members an opportunity to "piss an moan". In non-union stores you don't dare, you are an employee at will. All of this has happened because those "old old school" leaders went out and built something that was good for workers. I have said, i think it needs some refining, but start over from scratch, only a fool would want that.
Here's why. Our Union hall is built on the ground that the old Swift packing plant sat on. I've seen the blood baths and the wars that took place in the streets,to get a Union.No-one should have to relive those days where workers gave their lives to build the labor movement.If we ever go back to those bad old days, heaven help us. That means a whole lot of workers will have lost all of the good things Unions have done.
Bill:
The question is obvious because you've only chosen to answer the obvious part of it. For the purpose of this hypothetical, I'm an informed potential union member. I know labour history , I want to be treated with more dignity at work and I want to be a part of the international workers' movement.
But I'm trying to decide which among several unions to join, and I want to know why I should choose the UFCW. Tell me what specifically about the UFCW makes it a leader among unions and the right choice for my workplace.
This is a real question that many in "hot" organizing sites are and should be asking. You see this particularly in the public sector, where the promise of lesser employer resistance has the big unions falling all over each other for each new bargaining unit. I want to see it more in the private sector, too. People like choices. I think workers deserve choices. And I'd like to know what the UFCW would say to workers demanding choices.
EDIT: This question is addressed to Bill, but it isn't just for him to respond. I've done my research on Local 789 and I'm pretty sure I would join them if I had the opportunity. I wish they organized outside of Minnesota.
But I can't necessarily say the same for any other UFCW locals and I can't say the parent union has made a good case for itself so far in general. But for purposes of this thread, I'm trying to keep an open mind. I really would like to hear what UFCW supporters think the organization's strong points are. This shouldn't be that hard to answer.
G_T: I hate to keep reminding myself how long i've been around, but i have the misfortune of the years to remember prior to the meat and clerk merger. We used to fight each other for new members. Often times, the only winner was the employer.It was for those reasons the afl-cio and the clc adopted no raid policies. Historically, the wars to win members wasn't very pretty.
To your question about the ufcw and why join them. I know one of the most important aspects of a workers job are the benefits. Everyone has a wage, its ultimately the health insurance and retirement packages that make the difference , especially in retail sales. Non-union retailers are notorious for little or no benfits. I realize in Canada you have national health care, but in the US, that not true. One of the reasons we've put so much emphasis on benefitsis to try and use them to attract new workers. The ufcw has always believed in benefits being critical to contracts.
In the end, no matter which union you chose, the most important factor is the workers take an active role. Your contract is only ever as strong as the members are to see its enforced. Whether you have stewards or union reps. or both, the primary source of power is at that membership level.
Because of whats happening to the labor movement, more unions are diversifying and trying to organise in non-traditional workplaces. I know how challenging that can be. I think there is a value to starting with Unions who know an industry. The ufcw understands retail as well or better than any union out there.
Bill, you've been up front all the way. You've been respectful and patient with everyone on this site. I'm sure you behave the same way with your members.
You share information freely and you give people time to understand the information so it can be turned into knowledge. You use technology and the media for the benefit of workers.
I'm glad you mention often how long you've been around. It's a miracle that you've been around as long as you have and you haven't been infected to the degree that a lot of your compatriots have been. You are a testement to the fact that one can actually work within a corrupt system for a long time without getting corrupted.
Of course you're not perfect and I hope you get your share of critisizm. If no one questions you or challenges you, group think will set in, and that's not good.
You're a leader and leaders are always open to critisizm. However, when your good far, far, far, outweighs your bad, you'll get your well-earned kudos too.
You told us up front what you wanted to achieve. You told us how you hoped to achieve it. You told us what you were up against in trying to achive it. And you achieved a lot of it.
Good on ya!
All the good reasons of why to join the UFCW don't really apply to the UFCW in general. However, the good reasons may very well apply to your local--UFCW Local 789
Can the UFCW be redeemed one local at a time? Perhaps. Let's hope so.
Thanks again, Bill. Personally I'm not sure how much the anti-raiding provisions have actually helped workers, but I don't want to talk about that yet.
I'm wondering if there are any other takers for this question. Tell me Scott Lester, Tug, Canadagirl, others. Why would/did you choose the UFCW? What would you tell someone else who had to make the same choice?
EDIT: A note to weiser. In keeping with this theme, perhaps it would be better to change the title of the thread to "Choosing the UFCW"?