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  • authored by Dougle
  • published Thu, Apr 4, 2002

Has CAW lost it's momentum

Has the window of opportunity gone by? The longer we wait for a vote the easier it may be for UFCW to clean up. Lower seniority members from the closing branches have gotten used to their jobs and some have realised that they would have the same job even if they voted for the CAW and they reposted the jobs. Some have come to the realisation that the only ones that would benifit from the reposting would be the senior members from those branches. Why change unions if it is not going to benifit us now... run the risk of a strike, lock outs etc etc. More P/T are being hired and P/T being hired to F/T. is more advantage to the UFCW. Has the CAW waited too long to call a vote? and is it working against them...? Have some of the CAW guy's lost faith and have turned to the UFCW?

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Thu, Apr 4, 2002 3:35pm

Has the CAW lost its momentum?
In a word NO!
New leaflet is now out.
Again the UFCW past newsletters have become exposed as false.
CAW can not negotiate-FALSE
Barnstore newsletter-recanted --Again the UFCW is WRONG
FEAR MONGERING is in the UFCW's arsenal and again FALSE AND WRONG.
Workers at Maplegrove do the right thing when the vote comes and send the
UFCW PACKING..
Then you will have done yourselves a favor and you shall experience TRUE
WORKER REPRESENTATION with the CAW---------JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED
Democracy will prevail!
Some good educated members with leadership potential in Maplegrove
await the CAW RESCUE

  • posted by siggy
  • Thu, Apr 4, 2002 6:48pm

quote:


Has the window of opportunity gone by? The longer we wait for a vote the easier it may be for UFCW to clean up.


Is the vote still set for Aug.? As I recall UFCW supporters were pushing to have the vote as soon as possible. Have UFCW supporters changed their minds?

quote:


Lower seniority members from the closing branches have gotten used to their jobs and some have realised that they would have the same job even if they voted for the CAW and they reposted the jobs. Some have come to the realisation that the only ones that would benifit from the reposting would be the senior members from those branches. Why change unions if it is not going to benifit us now... run the risk of a strike, lock outs etc etc.


What's different? Whether you change unions or not, the potential benefits are the same today or in Aug. as they were when this whole thing started?

quote:


More P/T are being hired and P/T being hired to F/T. is more advantage to the UFCW.


Is this the only advantage UFCW is banking on? Using uninformed workers?

quote:


Has the CAW waited too long to call a vote? and is it working against them...?


Time will tell. Good things are worth waiting for though!

quote:


Have some of the CAW guy's lost faith and have turned to the UFCW?


Ask them and then tell us!

  • posted by Dougle
  • Sun, Apr 7, 2002 3:39pm

The UFCW is not just banking on the new F/T and P/T. The CAW just has nothing to offer the UFCW membership except promises that they could or couldn't keep, who knows? In this news letter I just recieved they are comparing Peterborough's new contract to the current UFCW Maplegrove agreement. It sound to be a good contract... but I would like to know what the other 19% didn't like or didn't get? And finally CAW has negotiated better wages with N.G. , which is very close to UFCW's wages that we negotiated close to three years before!!! If a sister building to Maplegrove is built at the other end of TO in Ajax wouldn't Peterborough be one of the closing warehouses? Did the CAW negotiate anything to protect it's workers in that regard? What good is a three year contract if the building could close in less then three? Why not give Peterborough what they want cause they may be moving soon, it may make the transfer to UFCW 1000A alot easier if they have a close copy of the contract they will be working under. Everything that is listed in this news letter and more UFCW members could and will bring to the floor next time around, and demand change. Pro CAW seems too afraid to work within the UFCW to promote reform and get change... Pro UFCW is working to create something great, while pro CAW is just following greatness, who really are the sheep? UFCW are not sheep but wolves in sheeps clothing

  • posted by Dougle
  • Sun, Apr 7, 2002 3:51pm

I am just waiting for a vote whenever the CAW can get around to doing it? Do they have the numbers to hold a vote? NO. or else there would have been onealready. Perhaps the CAW is waiting for the "Uninformed" no fill in the numbers that they are missing?

  • posted by weiser
  • Sun, Apr 7, 2002 4:34pm

You may be right and you may be wrong about why the vote hasn't happened yet. However, perhaps all workers aren't entitled to vote until all units to be moved have actually been formally notified that they are moving on a specific date.

I understand that some of the units' moves have been put on the back burner by NG. If that's true, then I'd say NG is more than a little worried that the CAW might be successful.

I think if you put all things aside and focus on why NG favors the UFCW over the CAW, you may find an answer in which union you want to represent you.

Personally, I'd avoid any union that my employer hand picked for me. I'd avoid any union that my employer looked at as a voluntary "partner". I'd avoid any union that negotiated away any worker's right to strike and exercise his or her rights under labour laws. I'd avoid any union that made atrociously bad investments with my pension money. I'd avoid any union that let an employer pick which local union it wanted to deal with. I'd avoid any union that invested money in my employer in exchange for my employer voluntarily recogniziing that union. I'd avoid any union that signed secret contract behind my back. I'd avoid any union that has a dues structure that enormously benefits the union's bank account when full time jobs are made into part-time jobs. I'd avoid any union....

Think hard Dougle--real hard. You never, never let your employer pick your union for you--never!

  • posted by weiser
  • Sun, Apr 7, 2002 7:25pm

Dougle said:

quote:


UFCW are not sheep but wolves in sheeps clothing .


Hooeeeee! If that's the best the UFCW's supporters can say, it may be a cake walk for the CAW.

Dougle also said:

quote:


Pro UFCW is working to create something great, while pro CAW is just following greatness....


To me, that says, the UFCW ain't there yet, but the CAW is great in comparison.

If you say so, Dougle.

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Mon, Apr 8, 2002 12:02pm

Momentum has not been lost by the CAW, However momentum has been gained. Talking with co-workers who might have voted for the UFCW a month ago are saying they are not happy with the union lack luster attempts of representation, The recent holiday let down has changed alot of minds, I believe longer this goes on the UFCW will be washed away.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Mon, Apr 8, 2002 12:52pm

"Wash away UFCW"

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 8, 2002 1:18pm

UFCW was not picked for me.... I started with them in Mississauga. Yes CAW may be a great Union, but it's not the one for me. I didn't like the tactics used when Mapleleaf was out years ago. They asked the puplic not to buy Mapleleaf product as a show of support. That tells me that they don't think of the long run. Asking the public to not buy the very product that their workers are producing is not good thinking. As well I found out that Peterborough workers have only a two year wage guarante out of a three year contract?? This tells me that Peterborough is going to Ajax. That is not the kind of short term thinking I'm looking for in a Union.
UFCW is a great union but has lost it's way. It just needs to find better leadership in and out of the warehouses. I choose reform. Cowards run. It take more courage to stay, fight and win what U want.
The company hand picked...... Think from a business stand point. A Co. is opening a warehouse that requires skilled and qualified workers from the start to get it up and running. They are transfering the business from other warehouses to the new one. Product needs to be picked and shiped from the other warehouses to the store until the warehouse is empty all the while the new branch is recieving goods to keep the balance so that their is no disruption of the transfer of goods to the store level. How can they get qualified workers in the new building without scarificing productivity from the closing warehouses? UFCW was there. Four warehouses of skilled and qualified F/T and a skilled and qualified P/T pool to replace the F/T that left without disrupting the transfer of goods. The company didn't hand pick UFCW for Maplegrove they had no choice but to turn to the UFCW because they had the man power, and we took it. If the CAW had the man power they may have gotten Maplegrove. To me that is the kind of thinking that I'm looking for if I was to invest in a company, service the customer. From an employee stand point.... that kind of thinking tells me that I will have a good job for a long time. I'd avoid any union that negotiated away any worker's right to strike and exercise his or her rights under labour laws I've been told that no part of any contract can come in conflict with Any law's in Canada... at that point that part of the contract would become voide. True or false? Either or If I strike I take a chance of losing customers to the competition. Which in the long run will hurt business. There are other ways of holding the company hostage to get what U want other then strike. Think about that.

  • posted by weiser
  • Mon, Apr 8, 2002 8:51pm

I'm thinkin'

Dougle, go back and read what you just said.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Mon, Apr 8, 2002 11:29pm

It is with embarrassment to hear from outsiders the oppressive rules and regs. at our Mgrove facility! They are right and it is with concern that I say damn the UFCW!
This has not been a real union who truly fought for the rank and filers the way they should
since pre 1994! Most every member who has been with us for a while will agree REFORM
is needed! I personally beleive that to acheive reform within 1000a ufcw is too much of a
gargantuan task! I would much rather take the CAW route to gaining back some workplace
pride and respect! I beleive we would get quicker more suitable results for us the rank and
filers doing it the CAW way.
For all the nay-sayers to the autoworkers your "members in action crew" you have written
shameful untrue things about the CAW shame on you!
Y'all stated the CAW could not bargain in the food industry FALSE!
The newsletters state how good the ufcw fights for its members! Well I do not believe all
battles can be won I do believe that harrassment and subjective discipline should be kept and nipped in the bud! The expected requirements for picking standards are UNTRUE
again----how can you make a deal on 100% going down to 92.5% if the #'s are TRUE.
If a 100% is a 100% than no deals should be needed.
I would like to see a professional CAW MOST time engineer come and see how the #'s
work! I would bet WE have been made fools of! Plain and Simple!
I have not heard a good argument on why I should stay UFCW?
I along with my new brothers are gonna have to reform this mess of a dictatorial union??I hope not
I do not think I am a COWARD for choosing a CAW rescue for the reform shall be set on
track with the CAW which I believe shall be set up quicker smarter and more reflective of the rank and filers needs.
Your "members in action" need CAW education!
I have been subject to both unions educators and believe me you
I WANNABECAW
The Peterboro NG / CAW contract has clauses for NG to contribute to both the Paid Education Leave and The Social Justice Fund.
A special thanks to the CAW bargaining commitee for bargaining for education!
And also a very special thanks to NG's team of Mr.Whibbs and Steve Bujna for respecting
members needs and privelidges to much needed education.
We wish success at Peterboro!
WE hope to be TRUE BROTHERS SOON with our CAW rescue.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 9:50am

What outsiders? If they are outsiders where or who do they get their infomation from?
Pre 1994 .... Are the problems of all NG employees based on 1994? I've read argument from CAW that blames 1994 for wage reductions for F/T and P/T at branches not represented by the UFCW? Yes UFCW took a big hit in 94, but it is my understanding that the Co. bought the contract using a standard technique. Offer the seinor's a lump some of money that they can't refuse? In their shoes would U take it? get a role of cash and retire early?
When I started 95% was the standard. Then UFCW got it knocked down to 92.5%. what is the problem have we not gone in the right direction? UFCW has an on going investigation by their engineering staff and has found the #'s to be false and has confrunted the Co. about it. The outcome of that meeting was the Co. and UFCW has agreed to alow and outside engineering firm to check the #'s. the firm was choosen not just by the Co. but both! it is still an on going project. Has anyone been disiplined for standards at M.G. since it has opened? Where they past their probation? Have they gone through the greeving process? or have they decided not to because they feel that the UFCW would not properly represent them? If that is the case then how would can UFCW prove themselves if U are nto willing to use the resourses that they offer? What gains has the CAW made at the N.G. warehouses that they represent?
I didn't know that there were" Most of the time" CAW engineers...are there "Most of the time" reps and stewards as well? What is a social justice fund? Their has been False information going around started from both sides not from just the UFCW it's only words not actions. UFCW has made consesion's in regard to the "super seniority " ie 6th and 7th day UFCW members are not in protected jobs. Only during regular day. I don't agree with any of that and feel that this should be thrown out as do other UFCW members and eventually will. CAW has not made a good argument on why to swing to CAW except to sling mud and get into a "mine is bigger then your's " contest. Sell me. tell me in a logical and intelligent fashion that CAW is the way to go with out comparing to the UFCW. UFCW has the following:
1. a membership of over 1000 with controls 5 warehouses. bargaining Power
2. A 20+ years of experience in dealing thing NG executives. which helps in the Greeving process.
3. 20+ years of experience in the food distribuation business. Helping with working conditions.
4. In having a "cozy" relationship with the Co. alows the Union to have an insite as to which direction the Co. plans to take in the future. Help to negotiating new contracts and securing new facitities. ie M.G.
These are just a few What does CAW got? I'll sign a card If U can sell me!!!!!

  • posted by <caw 4transport>
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 12:37pm

Dougle: You have said you would avoid any union that takes the workers right away to strike, Ok please Dougle correct me if i,m wrong but article 7 {7.01} says there shall be no strike or lockout during the terms of the agreement, The UFCW negotiated this article into the collective agreement, Know the question is didn,t the UFCW just take your right away to strike?.

  • posted by weiser
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 1:16pm

In all fairness, every union member's right to strike is taken away during the term of any collective agreement.

However, what the UFCW is infamous for is their "partnering agreement" with Loblaws whereby they agreed to never bargain the same expirey date for any Provigo store covered by the secret "partnering agreement." Likewise, if you look at the BC UFCW Local 1518 agreements, you will see that the province is broken into two sectors and the union has to notify the company which sector will do the bargaining. Whatever that sector bargains, then the other sector has to accept the deal.

The UFCW seems to be able to sign a deal whereby the employer is able to keep at least half its operations running even if the other hald is on strike. And the hald that doesn't get to bargain or strike has to live with the deal achieved by the other.

  • posted by Shadow
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 1:29pm

quote:


4. In having a "cozy" relationship with the Co. alows the Union to have an insite as to which direction the Co. plans to take in the future. Help to negotiating new contracts and securing new facitities.


How does this help the union? Do you really think the company guys tell the union reps anything important about where the company is going? No chance.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 3:40pm

Outsiders what outsiders asked dougle!
The outsiders I was talking about initially was truck drivers who have been in the produce biz
for years and with whom I developed good working relationships! They know like Mgrove workers know that a lot of our rules are oppressive to the point of not making a lot of sense!
And after further thought the MFD contributors who know a bad situation when they hear the stories from our workplace!
As far as the CAW's Social Justice Fund,it was established in 1991 to provide humanitarian relief and development assistance internationally as well as in Canada. It donates more than a million $ a year to worthy causes.

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 4:23pm

Thank You weiser for your clarification, I guess Dougle will understand that it is the union membership who will vote to go on strike, and only the membership, The CAW and UFCW may encourage to go out on strike but the final say will be the membership as per vote.

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 4:38pm

I have an answer to why switch to the CAW, Simply what union would agree with the company that they could switched the holiday re: easter to better benifit the companies bank account, and not have to pay out any premiums for working the holiday, I,m sorry but this is beyond me WHY? did this happen. And speaking of Why, Why hasn,t a general membership meeting be called by the UFCW? to discuss the issue @maplegrove, Also since I,m on the WHY KICK? WHY has the UFCW been decertified @serca foods in mississauga, WHY are there people outside of the loblaws companies saying NO NO MORE UFCW and lets move on to another union who will represent us in good faith. JUST ANSWER WHY? PLEASE I WANT TO KNOW.

  • posted by HJFinnamore
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 7:27pm

Poor dougle just doesn't get it. As some of you may know, I terminated my employment with the UFCW International effective July 4, 1995. The irony that it was Independence Day is not lost on me.

The UFCW had no problem paying a considerable amount to my company Workplace Strategies Inc. for another four years to produce print materials for them. We did manage to produce two or three news letters.

A while after I left the UFCW, I sent my old pal Doug Dority a letter (ok, I sent him many letters) complaining about activities in Canada. I also copied Ken Georgetti on most of the letters. Ah, but to no avail. My pals just wouldn't respond. Here's one of them:

quote:


September 27, 1995

Douglas Dority
International President
UFCW International Union
1775 K Street N.W.
Washington D.C.
20006-1598

By Courier

Dear President Dority:

Enclosed please find a copy of a collective agreement signed on May 10, 1995 by Gilbert Whitlock on behalf of UFCW Local 777. In what seems to be his standard practice, he has again ignored the British Columbia Labour Standards Act by negotiating terms and conditions below those set out in the Act. Likewise, he has again negotiated terms and conditions contrary to B.C. arbitrable jurisprudence.

However, Whitlock has outdone himself with this untenable contract. Even though his term of office, and his powers associated therewith, expired in December 1993, you continue to allow him free rein to negotiate "market-share-at-all-costs" agreements which are abominations to trade unionists everywhere.

For example, in my opinion, Article 30.9 DEMOTIONS is nothing more than a "fire at will clause" designed to rid the employer of top-rated, full-time employees. This clause is indefensible by even the lowest of trade-union standards:

In the event that a full-time employee receives two consecutive performance reviews documenting poor work performance within a two (2) year period, he or she may be demoted to the status of part-time employee and placed at the bottom of the seniority list in their department. The timing of the performance reviews and the decision to demote the employee shall be at the discretion of the employer.

You will note that part-time employees are exempt from performance reviews. You will also note that the wage-progression scales could require a part-time employee to work seven to 10 years before attaining top-rate pay. Therefore, the likelihood of a part-timer staying on until he or she actually reaches the top rate is highly unlikely.


Likewise, Whitlock knowingly signed a collective agreement, which contrary to B.C. jurisprudence, denies probationary employees access to the grievance and arbitration process. This is in spite of the fact that I arbitrated, and won, this very point with this same employer several years ago. I had no control over what Cliff Evans negotiated, but I could sure as hell challenge those clauses that fell below legal standards. Two contracts have been signed by Whitlock since that arbitration, and still, he refuses to negotiate legal minimums. And, still, he's hailed as a hero persecuted by a disgruntled member.

Anyone who knows what non-union, retail-food employers are paying, can see that this contract undercuts their rate by a substantial amount. You tell us to increase "market share" by organizing the unorganized; how the heck can we when guys like Whitlock sign cut-rate deals that make the Price/Costco's of the world look like "worker's heaven?"

This collective agreement has the potential to be the framework for the 1997 Superstore agreement. If Whitlock could sign away full-timer's job security in this agreement, I'm sure he'd have no problem doing it again in 1997.

UFCW apologists for this trade-union abomination, say that it only covers a couple of small wholesale cash-and-carry outlets, which are open to the public. This is partially true for now. However, the Cranbrook location is almost a full-blown grocery operation. The Victoria location was a cash and carry represented by UFCW Local 2000. That local's members were paid much higher rates than the new employees who now work there. Likewise the manner in which Local 777 gained bargaining rights to that location are worth investigating. And you can see by the "area" wage rates that Westfair Foods has province-wide plans for these public-access grocery stores.

President Dority, if I'm an embarrassment to you because I expose shameful practices, so be it. Everybody sweeps a bit of dirt under the rug, but "Triple Seven" creates such a bump that people were starting to trip over it.

Sincerely yours,

Hugh Finnamore
????????? Avenue
?????, B.C.
??? ???
(604) ???-???

cc Tom Kukovica
cc Gilbert Murray Whitlock
cc Ken Georgetti


  • posted by siggy
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 11:30pm

quote:


Likewise, Whitlock knowingly signed a collective agreement, which contrary to B.C. jurisprudence, denies probationary employees access to the grievance and arbitration process.


It appears that UFCW 1518 also negotiated language which excludes new hires from the grievance and arbitration process: (bold added)

quote:


Section 16 UNION"S RECOGNITION
OF MANAGEMENT RIGHTS


16.01 The Union agrees that the management of the Company, including the right to plan, direct and control store operations, the direction of the working force and the termination of employees for proper cause, are the sole rights and functions of the Employer. During the first four (4) months of employment, part-time new hires (only) shall be on probation and will receive a written evaluation within three (3) months of employment. The decision whether to retain or not retain the employee's services shall be the sole right of the Employer and any termination occurring during that period shall not be subject to Sections 17 and 18 of this Agreement. It is agreed that the probationary period will not apply if it can be shown that an employee has been terminated for any lawful Union activity as set forth in Section 19.09 of this Agreement. Those matters requiring judgement as to competency of employees are also agreed to be the sole right and function of Management subject, however, to discharge of employees on grounds of alleged incompetency being processed under Sections 17 and 18 of this Collective Agreement, providing that such employees have bee employed by the Employer four (4) calendar months or more. The parties agree that the foregoing eumeration of Management's rights shall not be deemed to exclude other recognized functions of Management not specifically covered in this Agreement. The Employer, therefore, retains all rights not otherwise specifically covered in this Agreement.

The exercise of the foregoing shall not alter any of the specific provisions of this Agreement.


Section 17 in the OFG/1518 agreement is the Grievance procedure and Section 18 is the Board of Arbitration language.

Siggys' tues. night pet peeve: Everytime I read the agreement I can't help but notice, all references to employers and union are capitalized, while all reference to EMPLOYEES are not. Shoot even the sections get capitalized but not the EMPLOYEES.

  • posted by Legal_Beagle
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 12:36pm

Cassiar Asbestos set the jurisprudence on probationary employees' right to grieve--even if the CA says otherwise.

That was decades ago. There's something awfully wrong with any union that has left such language untouched.

They wouldn't actually want their probationary members being fired and just going away without representation or a chance to fight injustice would they?

  • posted by remote viewer
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 4:07pm

The case law is always evolving. There are cases on a lot of what used to be considered "slam dunk" issues that deviate from the established norms. Unions should be looking at those where they go in favour of a member and not at the ones that support management's case.

  • posted by weiser
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 5:37pm

Unions should never, ever agree to leave language in an agreement that would mislead a member. Members should expect that what is printed in their agreement complies with the law and that it is exactly the level of coverage that they are entitled to.

To print a contract that tells a member that he or she doesn't have coverage when in fact she or he does is abominable if not purely evil.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 6:17pm

I how did the UFCW local 777 react to the deal and what did THEY do about it? True of False? doesn't most unions, and organizations, not take a single complaint serious untill more and more people stand up and tell them " we're mad as heck and we're not taking it any more!!!! " I'm not familiar with the UFCW internationally. But I am willing to learn.

quote:


As far as the CAW's Social Justice Fund,it was established in 1991 to provide humanitarian relief and development assistance internationally as well as in Canada. It donates more than a million $ a year to worthy causes.


Who contributes? the Co., Members, Union officials? How does it work? does the Co. and CAW match contribuations? If I wanted, and do, donate money to a charity, or fund, I would, but of my own choosing. I don't need this in a contract. with NG. BUT it is good to see that the CAW cares about those in need.

CAW still hasn't sold me of swithching? Comparing one to another doesn't cut it. At M.G it seems that the CAW has only appealed to one group of Members the senior transferies. What has the CAW offered the junior " transferies " that are doing the same job as they had done at their pervious warehouse for more money? ie Pick at one warehouse and transfer to pick at another warehouse with different days off. The Senior UFCW members dosen't have anything to worry about their seniority will protect them. And the Junior UFCW members.... well for them they see CAW as taking the jobs, postings away from them to go picking.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 11:24pm

Dougle please read HJFINNAMMORE and the thread "Where is the Court Case"
Take your time and read and think and read again and then ask yourself-----
"Could the UFCW be really that bad"? Really do you really want to be a part of the
UFCW crew. I certainly do NOT. Many Many people can say terrible things about the UFCW
it is astounding the B.S. I keep learning about these BIZ-UNION TYCOONS--that's right
TYCOONS off the memberships backs. Our first step out of oppression HAS to be with
THE CAW RESCUE. READ Finnammore Read www.reap.org Read MFD throughout and
the education will make you a better man.
Dougle all guys like you have to do suck up 1 REPOST and your on your way to a better
future! TRUST CAW and not the truly abhorable spineless toothless[for the rank and filers]
UFCW! With the UFCW you KNOW deep down" tons more shit will come down the pipe"
The UFCW is bad for the future GUARRANTEED----track record speaks volumes oust ufcw

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Thu, Apr 11, 2002 2:27pm

For all Maplegrove members wondering who is the better union>
CAW or UFCW look at their websites and judge OUR future on that
the future is yours! www.caw.ca and ufcw1000a.org/losers

  • posted by weiser
  • Thu, Apr 11, 2002 3:07pm

You've got a point. The CAW site is light years ahead of the tacky UFCW sites. UFCW Canada's site is pitiful, and the Local 175 site is tacky and amateurish.

However, estetics aside, the CAW site is not only well written but it contains valuable information.

The UFCW sites, in my opinion, are loaded with propaganda and touchy-feely mumbo jumbo.

  • posted by HJFinnamore
  • Thu, Apr 11, 2002 7:40pm

Hey Dougle my man. This is going to be a tough read for you, but it's an ineresting Labour Board decision about how two business unions got in a scrap over who a Loblaws subsidiary should give its employees to.

The UFCW said that they had a deal where the company was supposed to give the members to them but the Teamsters argued that they offered the best deal, so they should get to keep the employees the employer gave to them.

What are we bid for these fine people?

Do I hear $10? Ten dollars to the man in blue. Do I hear $9? Nine fifty, to the man in green. Do I hear $9? Nine dollars to the man in blue. Do I hear $8? Eight dollars to the man in green. Do I hear $7? Do I hear $7? Eight dollars an hour going once. Eight dollars going twice. Do I hear $7? SOLD! Eight dollars to the man in green.

edit= Dougle for you to fully appreciate the above linked case, you might want to read this Loblaws VP 's Affidavit. The case talks about how three unions approached Westfair asking for the yet-to-be hired employees. The Affidavit gives you an inside view of how the UFCW does their approach.

  • posted by Scott Mcpherson
  • Fri, Apr 12, 2002 12:29am

I was working at Safeway in Alberta in '91 when this all went down. Not once did the UFCW ever tell us that when they said "Superstore" management flew to Montreal to cut a deal with the Teamsters that low balled our deal it was only for the Loydminster store and not every Superstore in the Province. Nor did they ever breath a word about Loblaws interest in purchasing the Alberta Safeways. All we heard from the UFCW was how Safeway was serious, how they closed down a whole chain in Texas and that we were lucky just to keep our jobs blah blah blah. We heard how bad the arbitrator was and how the labour board was anti union.

It's been my first hand experience with the UFCW that you can't rely on them to tell you everything that's hapening and you can't expect them to correct you on a misunderstanding if they think they can benefit from it. I don't want to be treated like a mushroom [fed a bunch of bull and kept in the dark] why would the people at Maple Grove?

  • posted by HJFinnamore
  • Sat, Apr 13, 2002 7:57am

Dougle, you've had some time to read the above stuff. Would you care to comment on how above board your beloved UFCW is? Could you tell us how voluntary wrecks benefit Canadian workers?

  • posted by BOBO
  • Sat, Apr 13, 2002 4:02pm

People better be ready because crunch time is right around the corner!!! When the CAW goes to the labour board and applies I hope people take a serious look at the big picture. People need to have there seniority rights from day 1! and that is something that UFCW 1000A is not willing to negotiate. Why do we pay dues if are rights are not the same as everyone elses? I hope that guys that hold these "holier than thou" jobs see the truth behind UFCW and just because they were offered these positions aren't brain washed bad enough to see through the propaganda that the UFCW is just full of!!! Put your vote to good use and vote CAW and I guarantee you that at least you will have a union that fights for EVERY worker not just the hand picked few

  • posted by <Bob's Your Uncle>
  • Sat, Apr 13, 2002 4:14pm

If you choose the CAW you will have a union that you picked rather than one your employer picked.

With the CAW, you'll have a union that National Grocers will respect. I didn't say like, I said respect.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 15, 2002 12:05pm

I can not get into www.reap.org the Page has moved or something HJ I'm still reading. What happened to Scott Lester? anyone... anyone...
40% the CAW doesn't have it. 30% maybe at M.G how much do they need? Are they waiting for the strike to be over?
Should the M.G drivers be allowed to come inside? I think that if the drivers want to come inside then they should be allowed to post for positions. Make the " driver " jobs a posted position...but U must be skilled and qualifted. I have heard that at the Kitchener warehouse the drivers were general warehouse and some drove in the summer and came in the winter and took over jobs? true or false?
Does any pro CAW want a committee position or now of any one who wants it? A position has been temporarily filled for now but a vote to fill that position will be soon. Get involved.

  • posted by BOBO
  • Mon, Apr 15, 2002 3:47pm

Dougle... Kitchener drivers were allowd to post on any position inside or out. But a guy to move in just for the winter I would say takes a big chance because he has now lost his drivung position after the 2 week clause. The Drivers at M.G. should definitely be able to post inside just as guys inside should be able to be trained and come outside provided there are some rules around it. It makes so much more sense for us to be 1 bargaining unit and not separated!!! POWER IN NUMBERS!!!!! 2. This also gives employees the opportunity to improve and upgrade themselves in different aspects. Take a big look at the picture and see the advantages to being all together instead of separated, the edge goes to us. C.A.W. #1

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 9:22pm

quote:


posted by Dougle:
something HJ I'm still reading. What happened to Scott Lester? anyone... anyone...
[/QB]


No worries my friend Dougle;
I am here and mad as hell at the CAW,
Who wants a Union that would cross a picket line to apply for certification, thats like cutting off your nose to spite your face

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 9:43pm

Why does the CAW supporters have people In MG trying to bully the part-timers????????
I dont think you guys wanna see a bully!

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 10:15pm

Bully? No one better bully or intimidate for card signings. That is FRAUD
and could nullify an application.
Scotty get your man on the stand or else you last rant is useless!

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 10:59pm

Not for card signing , for shirt wearing!!
I will see you this week and I will tell you more about it.
The guy is a loose cannon, in which I love confronting!!!
For I am a loose cannon too!

  • posted by DeMoN
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 5:44am

Hey Scott, go look in a mirror and you'll see who the bully is! Keep up the great work, you made our campaign a great success.

The membership has spoken

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 6:14am

DeMoN
of the Anti-Corruption Coalition.
Member # 171

posted 04-19-2002 05:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Scott, go look in a mirror and you'll see who the bully is! Keep up the great work, you made our campaign a great success.

I can tell the hard line CAW Supporters "where to go" because there is no way of changing there minds
Bully me , yeah probally but you have not seen nothing yet!

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 3:22pm

Let us not be setting up personal vendettas with rank and filers.
We still have to get to a better workplace one way or the other.
My CAW support is for OUR future It is what I truly believe we
need a fully completely propping up in educating and PRIDE.
Us protected guys have to suck up one repost with CAW
and we will be on our way to more professional UNIONISM.
It is the least we all deserve.
By the way Scott how about denial of coverage for Dr. ordered
stress and depression leave?
Does the UFCW and the Co. really think they are above the law?

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 6:33pm

Dear Sell-out johnny, Even my roommate told me that he seen you this morning and could do nothing but laugh at you!
He told me that at your time at PineBush you ran for Union Stewert and you never got in???????
So is this why you are soooo upset with the UFCW because you could never be a stewert???
Well the CAW (criers and whinners) want you but look who the are DeMon, Capt Stupiding (Sorry Stubbing)and that Fonzi looking guy S.C
Wow great leaders.
Question for them,
What is so good about the Peterbough contract cause as of right now Im looking at it and its not that damn hot.
i.e Part-time wages?

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 7:57pm

Scotty Lester I would like to know who your room-mate is?
Untouchable posting guy of course who is probably going
picking when the CAW wins. You are sounding like a crier
and whiner here.
At Pinebush I barely remember making a run for steward!
I was not insulted with the vote for steward cause my friend
Jason Tischart became the steward. I would push education
with any and all union reps.
I became a steward at the Mill in produce cause no one else wanted to do it!
I had to save the shifts face{in my opinion-pride}.
I used to speak up at meetings and I was always pro-work
but just as quick back I wanted us to be left alone to do our
work. After all I believe we are the best at what we do.
I call us professional.
On a personal note I get treated very well and have never
been disciplined ever in 15yrs,
My support for UFCW came to a halt because of a certain
few who got childish like you are doing now Scott.
About 3 years ago I lent Buzz Hargroves book to a UFCW
appoinnted staff rep. I lent him that book to help the membership.
Helping via learning one thing from the book to better rep.
you the membersheep. This rep had my book for approx.
THIRTEEN MONTH'S. While he had my book SEIU was
going on and well well. Slamming Buzz for fighting for
OPPRESSED workers with QUESTIONABLE LEADERSHIP,
and questionable motives. Buzz and the CAW stood up
the little guys like ME and told the CLC I was more important
than a business like unjust rule. I gave your UFCW the benefit
of a doubt after steward training levels 1&2. I tried to help
within the UFCW and I am just giving enough respect to
live and let live. Oh ya I was told by your exec they were gonna
burn my book they were gonna use it as arse-wipe.
I said O.K. but it will cost you $35.00
Your room-mate had a good laugh on my account, well
send him over he can laugh. You guys from 1000a may be
LAUGHING REALLY HARD AT JOHN G. ERICKSON if the
UFCW can pull off the vote.
I can just imagine the humiliation it will be tougher than
f***. But so long as I can be DEMOCRATIC about it I will
feel safe for you Scott Lester.
If the CAW wins we shall be the envy of UFCW members
who have wanted to do the same.
Your exec at UFCW bash BUZZ cause you all can never
hide forever. Hide your undeserving positions and salaries.
With the UFCW there are exposures popping up everywhere
of which REALLY DISGRACES THE UFCW [the trough boys]
I am not a SELL-OUT to go for the better union.
Your room-mate and you go ahead laugh while you can

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 8:17pm

Scott Lester you know I'm the ODDEST ball!
Your elected whouse commitee rep Ric tried
to persuade me to sign a UFCW card a couple
months ago! He said Ric "I'm the only guy in all
your warehouses who has NOT SIGNED A UFCW
card. Am I odd WAY ODD cause I believe him.
Plus as you know Lester I was the very first CAW
supporter in Maplegrove--original 6--[ 5ufcw].
And I have been wearing my CAW cap with pride
for a year now. And also I have the distinction of being
the ONLY VISIBLE CAW SUPPORTER who came
from previous 1000a warehouse. On your side I can
understand not liking me because of your FEAR of LOSING.
On my side many men have thanked me for fighting for
THEIR RIGHTS. Lester smarten up and do not get mad
at me GET mad at your ufcw for putting you in this situation

  • posted by doug mackenzie
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 8:31pm

your response is excellent. It answers no question unless you are feeling guilty about something.
Your pal at pinebush is the most corrurpt union steward ever. So what is your point to dougle. you mr E. will also probably being picking. Words are simple, actions speak volumes. If the U F C W has so many problems, is that new news? why didn't you fight the last 15yrs?
Just wondering why? This is not the first time UFCW and caw have been battling, but it is the first time John E. is in the fight????????????????????????????????????????????

  • posted by doug mackenzie
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 8:48pm

BoBO
BLOW me you sily scew ball!!
What the hell is everybody talking about unions for?
This situation at maplegrove is personal, it simpley about selfish naive individuals trying to manipulate their sheep, as they have been doing for years.

THAT IS IT
YEAH YEAH

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 8:57pm

Tischart is Tischart I do not know about him being corrupt!
??Weasel into Westfair?? No one wanted to do it he was there!
Doug I spoke with you at Pinebush and we agreed on some things.
One thing for sure I was reading and admiring of the CAW
especially Buzz's words in his book.
I believe that Brian Reids last try at me to support UFCW was
"if the CAW gets in you won't be no mon. to fri. receiver"
no problem! if the man has 1 more # better than me he can
have the job. I worked nights for years so I could load trucks.
I'd pick anyday with a TRUE #'ered standard!
I'm 100 men on top of you is that why U question my motives?
I'm gonna be a CAW National Representative one day via
election. Just dreaming! I wish! After intensive extensive training
I shall under study Smart Professional Union Men for YEARS.
Where was I before on issues???? Ask Brian Reid I have and
always will be pro-work, I tried to persuade Brian and other
commitee men to do the best they could unselfishly.

  • posted by doug mackenzie
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 9:06pm

contract language is such that it must be read by those who are referred to in such that in applies to that specific stituation. Thus the current revisions of the collective agreement are made such that they are applied in order to meet the current needs of the busines.
This is the understanding of those who are affiliated with these agreements.It is understood that if the steward in such facility is in need of a coffee that it is thus the duty of then membership to supply then required caffeine substitute.
dmack

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 9:26pm

quote:


posted by wannabeCAW:
. Lester smarten up and do not get mad
at me GET mad at your ufcw for putting you in this situation


Putting me in What situation?
1) Getting me better money than the Kitchener Guys ever got (tier 1 or 2)
2)Protecting me in a job for a good few years?
3)Protecting my jobs from Non-UFCW parties entering MG?
4)For giving me and my children a real good benifit package.
5)For giving me the oppertunity to move to other DC's around?
6)For letting me have a voice.....?

Well JOHNNY SELL-OUT...
How the hell do I get mad at a Union that was protecting its Members??????????
Have another beer Brother!

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 9:46pm

No beer here Scott!
Overtime in the am Have a good night
Scott if the UFCW loses the vote then thank em again
and maybe they will find you work in Mississauga

  • posted by doug mackenzie
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 9:53pm

The Blues are still skating baby>
Jason sold out several people, you might have been off on on one of you sick leaves throughout some of that.What has the caw ever done for me?
Trash talk is cheap.The reality is that the only way to change our situation is by election. Education of our environment and our situation is necessary.WE WILL change the situation. Not either of the unions. WE WILL and that is the bottom line.
dmack

  • posted by doug mackenzie
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 9:59pm

I sure hope that the supervision at maplegrove isn't allowing their favorite employees to use the internet, because at this point it has been recorded.(easy to trace the trail)
love always
dmack

  • posted by DeMoN
  • Fri, Apr 19, 2002 10:10pm

Doug, the only way anything is going to change at Maple Grove is to get rid of the UFCW and put in a Democratic and responsible union that listens the needs of the members (not just a select few).

The membership has spoken

  • posted by UFCW's_Scott
  • Sat, Apr 20, 2002 8:29am

quote:


posted by DeMoN:
[QB]Doug, the only way anything is going to change at Maple Grove is to get rid of the UFCW

I have spoken to many members through-out MG and Dmack is the only one that really understands whats going on, These CAW cronies only believe what they want to believe.

If there is anyone one out there that wants the truth then may i suggest talking to Doug M, or myself to find out whats really going on. not the BS that the CAW is spreading
QB]


  • posted by weiser
  • Sat, Apr 20, 2002 10:49am

Can any of the UFCW supporters tell us exactly what they base their "trust" and "respect" of the UFCW on?

If I didn't know either of the unions, and if read everything on this site, I'd have a ton of stuff to tell me why I might not want to have the UFCW represent me, but I wouldnt be able to find any good reason to vote UFCW. I'd read a lot of positive stuff about the CAW.

Can the UFCW supporters fill in the gaps for those undecided voters? What's so wonderful about the UFCW and why should I vote for them?

  • posted by Dougle
  • Sun, Apr 21, 2002 7:55pm

quote:


Dougle, you've had some time to read the above stuff. Would you care to comment on how above board your beloved UFCW is? Could you tell us how voluntary wrecks benefit Canadian workers?


HJ I haven't had bad dealings with the UFCW. UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix. If a union any union has overstepped it bounds then it is up to the members to call them on it? y/n? There are avenues to take to make the union responciable. UFCW may not be perfect but who is? Not even the CAW has a clean record. Crossing the lines and all that. In the Case of Teamsters Vs UFCW case, Teamsters slipped up by not solidifying their contract with the members. T/F? They slipped up.

EDUCATE ME? Since the CAW has filed with the Labor board (by inappropriate means) Does the UFCW have to file within a certain time to have their name on the ballot? If so how long is it?

CAW running scared? The Co., rumor had it, is in the process of hiring new P/T to fill in positions the NEW F/T had left. That a fair number of P/T isn't it? Did the CAW file because they didn't want to do any more leg work to try to get 40% of these new hires to sign cards? Instead of trying they crossed picket lines. Asking permission of course. Please! She probably gave her "Ya Ya ok" so that she could get on with the business of getting her brothers and sisters the contract that they want. Not because she understands the CAW's reasons or positions for filing. What ever lets U sleep at night.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Sun, Apr 21, 2002 7:58pm

quote:


I'd read a lot of positive stuff about the CAW.


All written by CAW no doubt.

  • posted by remote viewer
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 7:34am

A few questions for you Dougle:

I'm still trying to get an answer to this question: Is the UFCW calling all unions who are filing applications for certification during the OPSEU strike "scabs"? What about people who are filing human rights complaints or employment standards complaints? Are they scabs also? What definition of "scab" are you using?

Are the drivers at Maplegrove required to cross picket lines if they encounter them when they're making a delivery?

quote:


UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix. If a union any union has overstepped it bounds then it is up to the members to call them on it? y/n? There are avenues to take to make the union responciable.


What are those avenues? There seem to be a lot of people out here who want to know.

  • posted by Troll
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 8:14am

Dougle said:

quote:


HJ I haven't had bad dealings with the UFCW. UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix. If a union any union has overstepped it bounds then it is up to the members to call them on it? y/n? There are avenues to take to make the union responciable. UFCW may not be perfect but who is? Not even the CAW has a clean record. Crossing the lines and all that. In the Case of Teamsters Vs UFCW case, Teamsters slipped up by not solidifying their contract with the members. T/F? They slipped up.


Dougle, I have two comments to make in relation to your statements and question.

First and foremost, your point, "UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix." is well taken. However, if you sweep all the UFCW dirt under the table, how can the membership ever be educated in the truth, so that they can change?

The second comment revolves around your seemingly total disregard for the fact that the Teamsters, the UFCW and another union approached Westfair Foods (Loblaws) to ask that the employer give its employees to their union.

Dougle, that's called "top-down" organizing. Having the employer pick a union for employees is wrong. Having an employer make a decision based on the best deal offered by a union is despicable. Employee auctions are bizarre to most trade unionists, but you seem to see nothing wrong with it.

I guess that's what amazes me about many UFCW supporters. They have no problem at all accepting that their employer picked the union that they belong to.

  • posted by lefkenny
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:33am

quote by dougle

quote:


HJ I haven't had bad dealings with the UFCW. UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix. If a union any union has overstepped it bounds then it is up to the members to call them on it?


I fail to see the logic in this analogy of dougle's. I had no idea HOW BAD UFCW conducted their affairs until I came to this web site. So, lets see if I follow, this analogy in principle.

A child molester molests a dozen children in your neigherhood. The cild molester is charged, and it hits the papers. Ok everyone who reads the paper, now knows the truth. Lets say that the child molester gets his two months of jail time and now is on parol. This convicted member of society wants to move back into the your neighborhood. Not just the neighbors are upset with the child molester wanting to move back into the neighborhood, but the surrounding neighorhood is up in arms and sends out petitions
to have the child molester prevented from living in your neighborhood.


Do you sign the petition or do you take the approach that the child molester has done nothing to you or your children?

My approach would be that even though the child molester had not done anything to my child, I would be thankful that people are making an effort to protect the life and security of members of my community. I would really be thinking if nothing else but the security of my children, all our childrens'future.

Although I do not belong to United Food and Commercial Workers Union, THANK GOD, it appears to me that Dougle and his supporters have totally ignored all the evidence to the contrary. It would appear to me they have closed their mind to all external documentation and are flying on the emotion of misplaced dedication. These types of members are just what UNTED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS like. It is an environment ripe with potential for corruption when members follow in blind faith.

As a human being, does not what your union is doing to the family and friends that make this web site possible just make your stomach turn? Do you not feel any shame as a unionist regardless of which union you belong to? Can you not feel for <whiteway> in this form who is afraid to speak for fear of more charges.

quote:


George .Iwould rather be a member of a pennyless union that is democratic ,then one that is rich and undemocratic. as you know the elected inhouse committee was removed and another one appointed .A call for an election was refused by the local. It took me a long time to get copies of the constitution for my members as i was told it would only widen the rift between the two sides.we have a president in the national office who was appointed .ops
I better not say any more incase you add more charges against me .


Come on Brother and Sisters, being nieve is one thing, being loyal to a great cause is another, but suporting a union of yours with its track record is ludicrous. Your logic in supoorting your union, reminds me more of a mothers love for a bank robber (her son) who stole all the old ladies money from the bank, killed four people in cold blood including a nine month pregnant woman. The mother states her love for her beloved child and proceeds to make up excuses for his mistakes in his life, never once taking the time to offer any apology to all the families hurt in the path of destruction of her son.

Supporters of United Food and Commercial Workers, I hope someone will be supportive of you when you wake up from your dream and find that some half a million dollar union ceo has you walking the plank over his empty cement covered exotic pool.

In the meantime think of <whiteway> and his family.

aboutunions

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:49am

quote:


First and foremost, your point, "UFCW's problems are nothing that a strong and educated membership can't fix." is well taken. However, if you sweep all the UFCW dirt under the table, how can the membership ever be educated in the truth, so that they can change?


Education starts at home. Read. Go to your local Library and check out a book. Read the provincial and federal laws that the unions have to go by, Questions? Ask the people who wrote the laws. Write down your questions and search for the answer. Just because a Union has an education centre doesn't mean that U will get the right answers It could mean U get their answer. Brain Washing Education.

quote:


The second comment revolves around your seemingly total disregard for the fact that the Teamsters, the UFCW and another union approached Westfair Foods (Loblaws) to ask that the employer give its employees to their union


What other union? Perhaps the unions were tring to act in good faith by going to the Co. first. " you catch more flies with honey then with vinager " Easier to negotiate a contract when the Co. is happy then mad.

quote:


I'm still trying to get an answer to this question: Is the UFCW calling all unions who are filing applications for certification during the OPSEU strike "scabs"? What about people who are filing human rights complaints or employment standards complaints? Are they scabs also? What definition of "scab" are you using?


I don't agree with all that the news letter said. I is my understanding that the majority of people still working inside are under a 6 months - 1 year contracts. They don't belong to OPSEU. There are OPSEU members that have crossed the lines because they couldn't stay out. Gotta pay the bills. Some OPSEU are getting $150.00 a week for 20h of picketing. What employeer is going to hire any striking people. Under current employment? Yes. Where? Goverment job. Aren't U on strike? Yes. Will U be working here after the strike is over? ...... Can't lie on an application form it's that fraud thing again....
CAW could have waited untill the strike is over. If they are so confidant that they are the better union then there is no reason that they could have waited. If the Co. hires new P/T and CAW feels that they are the better union, then they could have easily got 40% of them to sign with them.... desperate times call for desperate measures.

  • posted by Troll
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 9:56am

Dougle, Dougle, Dougle.... I can't believe you said...

quote:


What other union? Perhaps the unions were tring to act in good faith by going to the Co. first. " you catch more flies with honey then with vinager " Easier to negotiate a contract when the Co. is happy then mad.




As for the other union, the Westfair guy didn't name it.

Come on now, you don't really think cutting a deal for employees that aren't even hired yet is "trying to act in good faith," do you?

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:07am

The Media in some cases are selling news what ever gets the ads. If they are wrong then they retract their statements in a tiny colum at the back of the paper. Your attemp at Placing the UCFW allong side the mentally, morally and criminally insane is laughable. How can U compare a child molester to a union? Yes I would sign petitions in order to keep him/her off of my streets.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:17am

Troll If the Co. didn't have any employees at this building then what union is intitled to this building without having a work force to choose? What is the law state? How does the Co. hire people when there isn't a contract. Should the Co. make their own? Then doesn't the unions run the risk of losing the building? ...the employees could be happy with the contract that the Co. gives them and then all unions lose out T/F

  • posted by <CAWMAN>
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:36am

quote:


posted by Dougle:
?


Education starts at home. Read. Go to your local Library and check out a book. Read the provincial and federal laws that the unions have to go by, Questions? Ask the people who wrote the laws. Write down your questions and search for the answer. Just because a Union has an education centre doesn't mean that U will get the right answers It could mean U get their answer. Brain Washing Education.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Dougle I think you have missed Troll's point. You can read all the books you want, but if anything is going to change, you first have to admit there is something wrong. All of the UFCW supporters I have spoken with think the UFCW is the greatest thing since sliced bread. What good is education if the problems within the union are denied and sweept under a rug?

  • posted by <CAWMAN>
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:41am

quote:


posted by Dougle:
...the employees could be happy with the contract that the Co. gives them and then all unions lose out


The union would lose out? God forbid that the employees are happy and the union loses out. Whos side are you on Dougle?

  • posted by Scott Mcpherson
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:41am



You guys are such a joke. First you egg the CAW on saying if they had the 40% they'd go for it and "stop tearing MG workers appart" file the certification bid and lets have a vote. Boo hoo hoo. Now that they've done just that your bitching because they didn't wait?????

If the OPSEU gave permission to the CAW so that other workers wouldn't be adversely affected than what's your problem with it? other than you know damn well your beloved UFCW is out and your ride on the gravy train is over. As for scabes the UFCW has scabed it's own members out against other striking UFCW workers so I'd be careful calling the pot black there capt. Kettle.

The UFCW has been outed for what it truely is and it's priorities have been exposed to the world. MG is not going to be the last UFCW unit to fall, it's only the start of a better tommorrow.

  • posted by lefkenny
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 10:45am

quote by<CAWMAN>

quote:


What good is education if the problems within the union are denied and sweept under a rug?


quote:


The union would lose out? God forbid that the employees are happy and the union loses out. Whos side are you on Dougle?


quote:


Whos side are you on Dougle?


Need there be more said?

<aboutunions>

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 12:20pm

quote:


What good is education if the problems within the union are denied and sweept under a rug?


An educated Union wouldn't allow the union to deny and sweep anything under the rug!!!!!!!!

quote:


The union would lose out? God forbid that the employees are happy and the union loses out.


Not just the unions but the employees as well. A union is there to help the employee with equality, working conditions etc. etc, etc... the employees may be happy but they could be happier with a union onboard.

quote:


Whos side are you on Dougle?


I am always on the union's side when it is dealing the the Co. But when dealing with Union Vs Unions I will side with mine UFCW.
Now that I have answered your questions answer mine.
Since the CAW has filed with the Labor board (by inappropriate means) Does the UFCW have to file within a certain time to have their name on the ballot? If so how long is it?
If a Co. that wants to deal with a union, opens a new building that employ's no workers and mutiple unions wish to represent the soon to be workers how is it determined which union will represent them. What is the law surrounding that issue?

  • posted by lefkenny
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 12:30pm

Dougle, do you not think you are asking the wrong people? Should you not be asking your union business rep? He is supposed to be educated in all areas you are asking about, or is he not returning your calls? Maybe he is on a paradise vacation?

If he wants your vote don't you think that he should have already made all you die hard ufcws aware of all the necessary details to ensure the members are as educated as possible to the process?

<aboutunions>

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 12:57pm

Good point I'll find out? But at the same time wouldn't an "educated CAW" member be in the same position to answer my questions? CAW claims that their members are better educated so prove it.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 12:58pm

Dougle the UFCW filed the day after the CAW.
The filings were within the strikers protocal
The filings were TIME STAMPED and will be
dealt with shortly after OPSEU returns to work.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 1:12pm

Normally a company does not want a union for fear of worker Solidarity
A lot of companies that are non-union such as Toyota and Sterling Trucks
pay and give benefits that are in "market range" with that said:
a lot of anti-union people benefit from the union knocking at the door.
The law states that when a Voluntary Wreck deal has been made in
Ontario another union can challenge the Wreck within the first year
of the contract.
Dougle go to CAW website and look up Organizing and read it
I like the part of the Democracy Guarantee.
Again the web-sites CAW vs. UFCW is no Contest.
The UFCW has the worst contracts but yet the executive are
paid the most.?? go figure??

  • posted by lefkenny
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 4:03pm

quote by HJ Finnamore

quote:


Poor dougle just doesn't get it.


It would appear that way to me. He is determined not to see what we see and I am not even an UFCW member. Perhaps he is being given something either in monetrary value or something else that distract his ability to forsee reality as it is today or for the future.

aboutunions

  • posted by Scott Mcpherson
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 6:17pm

If the UFCW crossed the picket line to file for certification than by their own perverted standards they too are "scabs" are they not?

And Dougle, I'm a very educated person, more so than most people in this industry and certainly more so than most UFCW staffers. The system wouldn't work for me...why? because while knowledge is power that alone cannot bring about change. SO long as corrupt union officials can continue to control and count the ballots in their own elections they cannot be defeated regardless of how educated and informed the members are. You can't make hay out of plastic.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Mon, Apr 22, 2002 7:16pm

I believe Dougle knows deep down the CAW has a better structure and is a bottom
up union as compared to the top down UFCW.
Dougle just fears a full repost as do most UFCW "untouchables"
The UFCW campaign is desperate and tried the "untouchable"
approach on me, But with my 15 years I do not fear the
prospected CAW first possible mandate of the FULL REPOST

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