• authored by BOBO
  • published Tue, Apr 9, 2002

The Driving Farce at Maple Grove

I would sure like to know when this Union is going to start to take care of its Company drivers and not so much about the outside carrier!! I got a look at some paperwork that I shouldn't have and this Company is running close to 70% outside carrier!! I myself am finding it very hard to get an ounce of overtime yet a certain individual took a buyout from tjis company, received a fair share of money, with some inside information, purchased a truck. This gentleman now works days gets close to 60 hours a week and is making in the neighbourhood of about $55 an hour!! Where in the hell is the justice in this?? where the hell is the Union ??? Why are they not all over this?? Company policy states that once you take a buyout you are not allowed to work for the company for 3 years yet this guy is making $3000 a week!!! thanks for coming!!!! I would think that the Union would take care of its membersbut I knew I was dreaming with UFCW 1000A when the very first day I was told by their executive that when I came over from kitchener that the 122 jobs were secured because they were going to take care of their OWN people first. I truly believe there will be absolutley no justification in this workplace until there is a real Union in place.. Lets get the CAW into power and get things going in a positive direction instead of the way I see things going .. Power is with people and in numbers we can achieve what is right. Let's do the right thing and get the UFCW out of power they don,t deserve to represent me just by their actions nad when it comes right down to the crunch I am deadly sure I don't want them there representing me when my life and job are on the line!! Take time to listen to the truths out there and not the lies and the slander . Stay safe on the roads out there

  • posted by HJFinnamore
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 7:47pm

Ah, you're beginning to understand how partners work. There are restrictions on the "small potatoes" type of stuff, but no restrictions on the things that have major impact on the company's ability to pocket big bucks.

The poor bugger who is working the 60 hours per week has to just to keep his rig on the road. When his rig packs it in or is repossessed, some other fool will take his place and drive himself to poverty's front door. Working 60-hour weeks is inhuman.

It's always cheaper to run your own rigs, unless you can find a fool who is willing to subsidize your firm by running his rig below replacement and operating cost and who is willing to wear rags and feed his family cat food.

I know this because I drove trucks for years. I started my union career as a Teamster driver and shop steward for the IGA distribution centre in BC. We fought hard to keep our no-contracting out language intact. If there's anything worth fighting for, it's strong no-contracting out language.

  • posted by BOBO
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 7:58pm

that's were I disagree. He gets close to $40,000 from the company at least when he takes the buyout. He then purchases a used truck in good condition where the payments are very makable. Now at $55-$60 an hr that adds up to a very nice check.. but the part that pisses me off is that this guy is seein better runs better days better hours. And to top it off he can only go to certain stores because he can't fit into some . So now it becomes job preferential. No matter how you look at it the Union should be all over it like a dirty shirt!!!

  • posted by BOBO
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 8:00pm

oooooops...meant to say agree...

  • posted by HJFinnamore
  • Tue, Apr 9, 2002 8:27pm

Oh it looks good at first. But just think, if you have to pay thousands of dollars just so you can get a job.

You invest that money in a rig that can cost you $1,000 or more per month in maintenance costs. If you blow an engine, your rig is down and you've got rental and fuel costs that just about wipe out your days take. Blow a tire and you're out minimum $500 for each tire if you run good rubber. Need a major brake job? Ouch! Fuel prices on the rise. Look out!

Think about it. A company driver working 60 hours a week at $20 an hour, with overtime, grosses around $1,500 a week. The O/O who gets no overtime, and gets grosses $3,300 for the 60 hours. If the O/O used the buyout to buy the rig, that money is evaporating unless he puts the equivalent in the bank to buy the next rig.

If you figure that you have to put at least $1000 per month into the bank to buy your next rig, and $1,000 for maintenance and repairs and $1,000 a month for fuel that doesn't leave you much to live on. If he's not putting the two grand away per month for maintenance and repairs and capital savings for future assets, he's heading for broke in the long run.

Anyway, I think you are right on the money that the union should be putting major time and effort into protecting company drivers.

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 5:18am

Bobo: You say you believe outside carriers are at 70% @maplegrove no doubt about it, know my point is where did Mr. B. Springer come from, he said he came up from the U.S.A, however I have learned he came from Sobeys/oshawa foods. Ok if this is true then transport div @maplegrove is in trouble, Sobeys went to 100% outside carrier using Canada Cartage as there service provider, something smells fishy here. My second point is why hasn,t the part-time drivers been converted to full-time yet? if there using 70% outside carriers and they have yet to fill the orginal 124 transport jobs yet, one would think there was room to acquire those part-time drivers into a full-time position, Right? again something fishy going on here. Bobo I understand the rate is 65/hr for outside carriers in the cambridge area, and the company chooses to continue using outside carriers and they will, because the lack of representation and back bone of the UFCW to do anything about it. keep on truckin!!

  • posted by Troll
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 7:44am

Hey, caw4transport, it's obvious that the union didn't do the math on how much dues revenue they are out by letting the gypsies do the hauling.

It's also obvious that the union hasn't figured out that the gypsies are a threat if a strike ever happens. In the event of a strike, they will just start hauling from the strike-bound location or start hauling from other locations to help break the strike.

They have their lives on the line and the banker threatening to take everything if they miss one payment.

What is the UFCW going to do about the gypsies?

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 10:35am

Troll: UFCW can,t do a damm thing about the gypsies hauling our freight they the ufcw allow this to happen with allowing 30% of the work going to outside carriers this in our so called great deal. Know would this happen in the U.S.A with the likes of HOFFA not likely the teamsters and hoffa have fought hard to keep US drivers in there company driven trucks, example yellow freight, roadway, overnite, do you see outside carriers hauling there frieght like we have @ maplegrove not likely. Hoffa fights hard for truck drivers. The UFCW doesn,t know a damm thing about trucking or truck drivers, if they knew anything where,s the drivers award program for safe driving ie:25 years safe driving, let see if the company/union had a program for safe driving would this not lower the operating cost such as the cost of Insurance? would then be cheaper to keep company trucks on the road? yes it would. Also if you lower your accidents/million miles wouldn,t this help make company trucks more competive to the outside carriers, and if you hire the best driver,s who have a excellent driving records this would help to. The point is the UFCW didn,t do a good job selling company drivers to the company as assets we may have not had as many outside carriers you see today. I would also say the company and the union need to show some pride stop treating us like warehousemen {no offence to whse} and start treating truck drivers with respect, know where talking transport reform. Maybe the UFCW can learn some lessons from the teamsters in the USA in regards to trucking, show a little back bone.

  • posted by Troll
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 12:31pm

To show backbone, something has to have one:

  • posted by BOBO
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 12:33pm

Hey HJ..... This guy held a dispatch job plus he also held a driving job within the bargaining unit. After a few closed door meetings with management he then went and did this! tell me there was no inside information and dealings going on.. the guy is treated better than the company drivers.. NO JUSTICE!! I sure hope 1000A is going to take a close look into this!!!

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 4:27pm

I am in the warehouse and I never felt a lot of solidarity between the drivers and the whse.
At our General Merchandise building in Cambridge all NG loads go to a firm called
Thomsom [outsiders with a dispatch in OUR building sometimes dictating to union men on what to do pertaining to loading] Thomson is a typical non-union company where workers
fall short of a real living wage! Of course the higher ups are paid handsomely on the backs of the drivers!
I would like to see the NG company drivers hauling 95% of our loads. Our drivers are professionals who deserve to mantain a living wage and consistent improvements in our collected growth.
I see no other way than to have the drivers grouped in with the warehouse that would be a great start to ever-lasting solidarity in our drive in the future. The truck drivers know the CAW
is a true members union and not a recessionary BIZ-UNION overlooking rank and filers for the massive ufcw coffers
As the ufcw wallows into negotiation for the truck drivers I hold reservation as to /is your bargaining team really being true to its members well being.
You guys like us need CAW bargaining for a chance to retrieve what has been TAKEN away
without proper justification. UFCW you have helped this company suppress our standard of living for about 8yrs now and you foolishly think we should be respectful of you--
Sign me embarrassed to be UFCW

  • posted by BOBO
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 6:00pm

hey wannabe........ Maybe the Thomson drivers should get a backbone and phone the CAW and see what they can do for them. It should be LCE drivers hauling out of Pinebush and Freemont. Talk to the store personel. They would rather deal with the Company driver anyday of the week. But tell me where is 1000A in all this? Should'nt they be the ones preserving jobs for the future. I keep seeing Galen Weston getting richer quarter by record breaking quarter. I hope 1000A wakes up and starts to pressure this company into opening up their wallet and creating the driving jobs that are there.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Wed, Apr 10, 2002 9:06pm

I wonder why UFCW1000a would not try and organize the Thomson Terminals drivers or why would the ufcw just sit back and maybe golf while scab truckers haul UNION product.
Shame UFCW you ain't to powerful at all. You guys lack the understanding of promoting
unionism education, voting rights and such. Maybe one of you machine heads can get us a copy of 1000a local by-laws? Get one to me you all know who I am RIGHT PINION HEAD

  • posted by Dougle
  • Mon, Apr 15, 2002 12:47pm

The gentleman who took the buy out and bought his own rig has become an owner operator. He isn't working for the Co. but himself. He probably has a contract with the Co. to allow him to haul their freight. That's not working directly for the Co thats one Co. hiring another Co. and the hired Co employ's an ex driver. If U could would U? Even other trunking Co. sometimes and mostly give their owner operators better runs than the Co. drivers because they have a truck to pay for and they will run like the wind. As long as he is driving within the Government guidelines for amount of hours driving vs bunk time 60 hours a week isn't a problem. 10 hours max then manditory 8 hours bunk time. What have U done about it? Who have U gone to talk to from the Union? Have U filed a grevance? What steps have U or others taken to resolve the problem? What is the agreement that the drivers have with the Co about the relation of Co drivers hours vs the out side carriers hours? How long is a typical run how many can U do in a day? Will taking longer at drops get U overtime? If a run takes 5 hours what do u do for the other 3 hours? Riddle me this riddle me that.

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Mon, Apr 15, 2002 5:37pm

Dougle: I,m a company driver I,ll run like the wind and run 60 hours/week, however the company has to pay me overtime therefore they use the owner operator for longer hours. This is a Union right? so why Dougle did the UFCW accept 30% outside carriers, and isn,t it the union responsible to ensure our workers work? I don,t know how a union can say its ok for outsiders to do our work take our jobs this is wrong in the first place, isn,t this also called contracting out?. The relationship between company drivers in regards to hours verus the owner operators, whatever the company wants remember the UFCW agreed to article 12.05 "the company reserves the right to make whatever adjustments are required to satisfy the needs of the business." This says if we the company wants owner operators to work more hours than company drivers then let the brokers work, Dougle please don,t suggest we should talk to the union about this because if the union would be truthfull they will say, we allowed the company to do whatever they want. shame on you ufcw, wash away ufcw. This deal with the certain owner-operator in question is just another example of a sweetheart deal, backroom dealings, shame on you. There should be nobody but our company drivers hauling our freight, end of story

  • posted by Dougle
  • Tue, Apr 16, 2002 1:19pm


This deal with the certain owner-operator in question is just another example of a sweetheart deal, backroom dealings, shame on you. There should be nobody but our company drivers hauling our freight, end of story

This is not a backroom deal that the UFCW is responsible for. It is the Co. not enforcing it's own policy. Are there enough Co. drivers to move the loads in question? no. At M.G we are moving three to four times the freight then at Kitchener ... Has the Co. hired any new Co. drivers? Most young drivers seem to want to do the long haul Texas Calf. etc etc. More money. Older drivers don't want to start at the bottom of the pile again driving city. The paper has dozens and dozens of AZ jobs availiable. Long haulers make $1500 a run from T.O. to calf. and back. the trip takes aprox. 1 week 3.5 days down and 3.5 days back good money ya? The average driver makes 60,000-140,000 a year.
If you don't go to your Union and just wait for the CAW you maybe waiting a long time. having a vote any time soon? So why not in the mean time just suck it up and TRY to work with in the "confines" of the UFCW. If you don't do something about it then put up with it. The choice is yours... why suffer while waiting for the "CAW rescue" and try to get thing done now. Even if you don't get what you want then at least the CAW has something to write about in the news letter " UFCW Fails to represent their drivers at M.G. " The topic could read, then this time it would be true.

  • posted by weiser
  • Tue, Apr 16, 2002 1:42pm

Dougles say the darndest things:


So why not in the mean time just suck it up and TRY to work with in the "confines" of the UFCW.

First you define the UFCW as "Wolves in sheeps' clothing," and now this.

  • posted by weiser
  • Tue, Apr 16, 2002 6:14pm

How'd the 1000a meeting go on Sunday?

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Tue, Apr 16, 2002 8:09pm

The 1000a meeting on Sunday in London ON. was quiet!
The meeting was not secret! It was for one of the many many
divisions within 1000a this meeting was for 2 elected positions
for the London Loblaw Store Div..
Kevin Corporan 1000a president chaired with Brian Reid there
as the staff rep. all was quiet!
I had time to talk to our 1000a rep and he explained that as
refering to MFD posts we need not worry about suing so long
as we do not lie and fabricate falsehoods demeaning of the union.
I had the pleasure of meeting Mr.Steve Guiliano from 1000a and
a member of REAP and if I'm correct he also belongs to OCAP
Steve has quite a message and he seems sincere to me,
I think I shall endorse him when 1000a elections come,
providing I'm still wanting to be CAW!
Sorry the reply was late fellow MFD'ers and not muchof a story
But at the end of the day in London all was peaceful

  • posted by <caw4transport>
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 7:24am

Dougle; I,m sure if the company would place an ad in the local newspaper that they are hiring full-time drivers and the starting wage will be 18.00/hr plus shift premiums, benefits, and a company pension plan, home everyday/night, then the az drivers will be lined up to the door, and even sleeping overnight in the parking lot to get a chance at a decent paying union job. Don,t you think? I challenge the company to place the ad and replace the owner-operators with good experienced drivers. With hiring new driver,s wouldn,t this add to the union,s take on union dues, more money for the union?. Maybe you can ask a Thomson driver if he/she would like to work full-time @maplegrove, I would be very surprised if they said no.

  • posted by siggy
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 7:30am


and not muchof a story
But at the end of the day in London all was peaceful

From what I've heard about 1000a meetings, this is indeed big news.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 12:58pm

Well we finally got a GMM for Maplegrove and our sister building which ships general
merchandise Pinebush.
The meeting will be close to our work[surprise] at the Steelworkers Hall in Kitchener
on May 1st. There are 3 meetings throughout the day first at 8am then noon and
finally 8pm.
I can only imagine the variety of questions that will pop up at the GMM.
Well there we finally will have a meeting that all bargaining unit members may attend
and not another "members in Action" brainwashing.
The latest on the floor at Mgrove is NO MORE coverage for Stress or Depression!
Can you,imagine these guys{comp.&union exec.} really do think they are above the LAW
Also it is anticipated the UFCW frauduently obtained "card support" therefore some believe
the UFCW will NOT even be on the ballot for representation.
Can you imagine the ufcw is out of the RACE. I CAN!

  • posted by remote viewer
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 6:08pm


The latest on the floor at Mgrove is NO MORE coverage for Stress or Depression!

That would be discriminatory. I think there is a case on this from somewhere in western Canada. You can't deny benefits to someone who has a non-physical disability.

  • posted by weiser
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 7:46pm

Say goodbye to the UFCW and you have no more stress and depression. Maybe that's what they mean.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 8:16pm

Maplegrove Justice Update;
The CAW has filed their application to represent the workers at Maplegrove!
Rescue well under-way!
Justice in Ontario---iwannabeCAW.

  • posted by Troll
  • Wed, Apr 17, 2002 8:39pm

Maybe it be time for a new thread so we can keep up with the news. I'll bet a lot of people are feeling less stressed and depressed already.

  • posted by DeMoN
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 7:07am

I started a new thread HERE about the CAW certification application.

  • posted by Dougle
  • Thu, Apr 18, 2002 12:41pm

Dougles say the darndest things:
So why not in the mean time just suck it up and TRY to work with in the "confines" of the UFCW.

First you define the UFCW as "Wolves in sheeps' clothing," now this.
ever heard of sarcasm? come on.

  • posted by caw4transport
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 7:33pm

Drivers: Vote for the C.A,W, its our future, we need a union strong enough to fight for our rights, we need a union who will say NO more Outside Carriers. Outside Carriers are a real big issue @ maplegrove the present contract allows free rein for outside carriers, no conditions attached. The truck-drivers @ maplegrove must say no-more outside carriers, these our jobs and they are not going to take our overtime away. The start-up period is over know, and we continue to see broker after broker hauling our freight taking money right out of our pockets, this is wrong, Dead Wrong. Its time we the Truck Drivers make a stand and stand up for ourseleves, we have to, we been left no choice, Calling all the drivers @ maplegrove to come out and vote, Vote for the C.A.W and we will drive into the future together.

  • posted by caw4transport
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 7:45pm

The issue of Outside Carriers came up alot @ our meeting with Buzz and the C.A.W, this tells me its just one of the important issue @maplegrove, The U.F.C.W has failed to recognize the importence of strong transport langauge, the ufcw has no langauge regarding this matter, I,m very disturbed by this, I know we out there @ ttc building are forgotten sometimes, but let me tell you, WE WILL BE HEARD @ the end of the day.

  • posted by caw4transport
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 8:07pm

I guess I have alot to say, so be it, brothers I drove coast to coast Newfoundland to Alberta, New-York to California, I do not know much about the warehouse ok, but when it comes to transport I know a little bit, I,m not a super-trucker either, All I want is for the workers@maplegrove to be respected, And above all I don,t want to see outside carriers doing our work. And when will somebody agree without truck-drivers the economy will stop.

  • posted by siggy
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 8:09pm

This must be an omen:

The ufcw 1518 bargaining conference over the weekend went on-line to find the words to Solidarity Forever. When they got it all printed out for everyone to sing along, someone noticed it had CAW letterhead.

Now that's funny

  • posted by weiser
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 8:34pm

Too funny

  • posted by siggy
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 9:01pm

Solidarity forever
Solidarity forever
Solidarity forever
The bad one will be gone.

  • posted by siggy
  • Sun, May 12, 2002 9:51pm

This quote from an LRB decision belongs in this thread (no matter what Glob_T thinks ).


"There is no doubt in my mind the employer was, to one degree or another, behind this raid", said Sundin. "Clearly, given the way in which this Association negotiates and the kind of collective agreements it has in place, Overwaitea/Save-On management would like nothing better than to have them sitting across the bargaining table rather than a UFCW committee

bold added:

Even a president agrees. It ain't good when you have employer friendly agreements floating around and the employer asks specially for you at bargaining time. It just ain't good.

  • posted by caw4transport
  • Mon, May 27, 2002 7:07pm

Well the vote has come and gone know, However the driving farce @maplegrove continues, News flash Canada Cartarge has been seen hauling maple grove loads out of maple grove, Canada Cartage hauls for Sobeys, in my mind this can,t be good for our jobs @ maplegrove. What should we do as a group of drivers in this positon? Should we protest? Should we wildcat? We as drivers must protect our good union jobs and good union pay, WHAT SHOULD WE DO? I FEEL WE NEED TO TAKE THIS MATTER IN TO OUR OWN HANDS , KNOW NOT LATER OR IT MAYBE TO LATE. GIVE ME YOUR FEED BACK PLEASE?

  • posted by weiser
  • Tue, May 28, 2002 7:09am

Don't do anything that would get you fired. You need to be employed to fight the big fight. Your brothers need you just where you are.

Start gathering data. Who is hauling what, to where, with what and for how much? What are the damage stats? Are the new drivers hauling under a long-term or short-term or day-to-day contract?

Get a letter off to the UFCW and copy the CAW. Ask what the union's position is on contract haulers and what plan does the union have to protect your jobs. Do that now and ask for an immediate answer.

What help are the inside guys willing to give? To whom do they give priority to loading? The more information you have and the sooner you get it, the sooner an action plan can be devised.

Get the drivers together for a brainstorming session. Ask the CAW rep is he can help you brainstorm so activities.

However, start the info gathering asap.

  • posted by wannabeCAW
  • Tue, May 28, 2002 3:24pm

Like I have said before as a Whouse worker in the UFCW I've never felt much Solidarity,
especially for truck Co. truck drivers. This has to change and I'm sure it will with CAW help
Our collective voices from "vote day" have been SILENCED! By way of the UFCW1000a,
requesting the ballot boxes sealed and then destroyed. SHAME ON Y'ALL UFCW.
WASH AWAY UFCW wherever you can! In essence we are being held Hostage and we
remain OPPRESSED by way of a shoddy union. From the Company I would expect deceit
and oppression from the UNION I am still absolutely CERTAIN that I wannabeCAW.
WE should be able to withold our Dues till the decision comes from the OLRB.
OUR DUES@Maplegrove are being used on Laywers to QUEIT OUR COLLECTIVE VOICES
CAW4TRANSPORT I will stand at the LINE DEnouncing outside carriers.
WORKERS need and deserve a Living Wage. Stand Up For Yourselves Fellas I'l be there

  • posted by <DEMOCRACY>
  • Fri, May 31, 2002 12:13pm

now that the vote is over some of us who are actualy working at maple grove are wondering when the democracy is going to start happening. the ufcw put their puppets in as apointed union stewards and they said and they put up on the union board in the warehouse that there would be elections for union stewards after the vote. then they apointed some guy who is never around as a union representatave to thier so called warehouse comittee. well the vote is over and all we want is proper elections so that the workers can vote in the union stewards and the warehouse comittee union representive. when is this going to happen. where is the democracy you promised. we want people who know the contract, and can write grievances, who have experience. we dont want handpicked puppets who just kiss brain ried's a$$ all day all the time. you guys know who you are. everybody knows it and we can see it. its time for proper elections.

  • posted by weiser
  • Fri, May 31, 2002 3:53pm

What you can do is to hold your own vote. Make sure you have a secure box to place the ballots in and follow a few simple rules and Voila! you have elected stewards. You then demand that the UFCW appoint them.

Get an election committee; scrutineers to count the ballots; a signed and sealed lock box; a secure place to keep the lock box; have someone verify the security of the lock box before the vote and at the opening of the ballot counting; scrutineers to validate and count the ballots; and a returning officer to record the results.

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